Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border

[Tannedbaldhead]

bhstewie said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

It goes like this. Unfriendly jet in your airspace? Don't want it there? You can shoot it? No ifs no buts no maybes. Consequences? Doesn't matter. Jet's there. By right you can shoot it. So why not?

I've no doubt they're within their rights.

Do you think they would have done it without the backing of NATO?

Do you think it's made the situation better or worse?

It doesn't matter whether it makes the situation worse or not. Why shouldn't a nation have to question itself or be questioned by others with regards to defending its own sovereign territory?

Russia has regularly violated Turkish airspace thinking itself too strong, too unpredictable, too scary, too nasty and able to bring too many consequences to too many people for Turkey to do anything about it and Turkey shot it down anyway.

I really don't like the current Turkish regime but I kinda admire that they have looked at the rest of the world tip-toe round the powder-keg that is Russia and thought "we can so we will...Boom!!"

[vonuber]

Good summary of Turkey's cosy relationship with ISIS here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/vladi...

[superkartracer]

rich85uk said:

i do hope both pilots were killed quickly, and the one where his parachute fails from the shooting i really hope he was dead before he fell

sadly they were just sitting ducks, listen to the 'moderate rebels' laugh RIP

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ae_1448377068

Grim , expecting a huge barrage of missiles and large bombs heading their way .

[rb26]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27a_1448375727

Wonder where they got this, perhaps Santa Claus arrived early?

[bitchstewie]

Tannedbaldhead said:

It doesn't matter whether it makes the situation worse or not. Why shouldn't a nation have to question itself or be questioned by others with regards to defending its own sovereign territory?

I'm not disputing their right to do it, I'm disputing their lack of common sense in doing so.

They wouldn't have done it without thinking that NATO had their back, which is I guess the point of NATO.

Still seems monumentally stupid IMO.

[Tannedbaldhead]

rich85uk said:

i do hope both pilots were killed quickly, and the one where his parachute fails from the shooting i really hope he was dead before he fell

sadly they were just sitting ducks, listen to the 'moderate rebels' laugh RIP

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ae_1448377068

I agree wholeheartedly. The celebration of killing is conduct of sub-humans and barbarians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRumnAOPNxs

[Tannedbaldhead]

bhstewie said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

It doesn't matter whether it makes the situation worse or not. Why shouldn't a nation have to question itself or be questioned by others with regards to defending its own sovereign territory?

I'm not disputing their right to do it, I'm disputing their lack of common sense in doing so.

They wouldn't have done it without thinking that NATO had their back, which is I guess the point of NATO.

Still seems monumentally stupid IMO.

So if Russia was continually violating Turkish airspace you say Turkey should do nothing?

[rb26]

bhstewie said:

I'm not disputing their right to do it, I'm disputing their lack of common sense in doing so.

They wouldn't have done it without thinking that NATO had their back, which is I guess the point of NATO.

Still seems monumentally stupid IMO.

^ This

Russia will react in some way. I just hoped its measured and calculated in such a way as to not escalate things further.

[Tannedbaldhead]

rb26 said:

bhstewie said:

I'm not disputing their right to do it, I'm disputing their lack of common sense in doing so.

They wouldn't have done it without thinking that NATO had their back, which is I guess the point of NATO.

Still seems monumentally stupid IMO.

^ This

Russia will react in some way. I just hoped its measured and calculated in such a way as to not escalate things further.

Russia has no right to react. It is bombing just about everyone in Syria bar ISSIS and was violating Turkish airspace. Why should it react?

[rb26]

Tannedbaldhead said:

Russia has no right to react. It is bombing just about everyone in Syria bar ISSIS and was violating Turkish airspace. Why should it react?

Can you say that with absolute certainty? What are your sources that Russia is exclusively bombing anti-Assad forces, bar IS?

[bitchstewie]

Tannedbaldhead said:

So if Russia was continually violating Turkish airspace you say Turkey should do nothing?

No of course not, go through diplomatic channels, involve the UN, do whatever you do

Maybe they have already done this, I don't know as I wouldn't claim to have studied the political situation out there, but shooting down a Russian bomber is fking dumb and they wouldn't have done it without the coattails of NATO to hide behind.

[Phud]

please define violating? the traces show a transit!!

They are the only force invited to be there, also can you define between go and moderate forces?

Also please could you show all the other violations of turkish airspace and not the claimed airspace?

Also looking at the trace, can you guide me through the lock on and flight time for both a SAM or AAM to take out a plane?

[rb26]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/203355/article/ekathim...

http://www.ekathimerini.com/202640/article/ekathim...

Interesting, not a single one shot down by the Greeks.

Edited by rb26 on Tuesday 24th November 19:32

[fido]

It's no fun defending the Ruskies (two civilian airliners come to mind - perhaps they need to reflect on this) .. but this is analagous to walking over the corner of someone's land - yes it's trespass, but more of an annoyance that a direct threat.

[Tannedbaldhead]

rb26 said:

What are your sources that Russia is exclusively bombing anti-Assad forces, bar IS?

US State Dept. That said I exaggerated when I said exclusively. The figure is 90%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...

[moanthebairns]

The area is just a political tar pit and will continue to be this way for my lifetime at least. Nothing good will come out of this place.

So, I think it's time to send jermey vine in, he'll have the conflict sorted before the golden oldies at 3 whilst finding time to squeeze in ABBA, Fleetwood Mac and a trip to the allotment.

[rb26]

Tannedbaldhead said:

US State Dept. That said I exaggerated when I said exclusively. The figure is 90%

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...

Any possibility of bias in the US state departments report?

[RYH64E]

The Russian jet wasn't in Turkish airspace when it was shot down, it had left Turkish airspace, was heading away from Turkey, and posed no threat. It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.

[ZR1cliff]

moanthebairns said:

The area is just a political tar pit and will continue to be this way for my lifetime at least. Nothing good will come out of this place.

So, I think it's time to send jermey vine in, he'll have the conflict sorted before the golden oldies at 3 whilst finding time to squeeze in ABBA, Fleetwood Mac and a trip to the allotment.

Better still, send Vanessa Feltz in.

[Defcon5]

We seem to regularly send jets to intercept Russian planes flying close to UK airspace, do they have orders to shoot down the Russians of they stray over the imaginary line?