Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border

[Kawasicki]

RYH64E said:

The Russian jet wasn't in Turkish airspace when it was shot down, it had left Turkish airspace, was heading away from Turkey, and posed no threat. It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.

Yes. It was a completely stupid move.

[dandarez]

rich85uk said:

i do hope both pilots were killed quickly, and the one where his parachute fails from the shooting i really hope he was dead before he fell

sadly they were just sitting ducks, listen to the 'moderate rebels' laugh RIP

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ae_1448377068

Worse, far worse, imo than the actual aircraft being shot down.

Murderous moderate bds.

[Rogue86]

Liveleak showing a voice-recording of the alleged QRA intercept by Turkish F16s, apparently confirmed by the US as being genuine. If its to be believed, two Russian aircraft were intercepted and warned ten times at thirty second intervals with one jet turning away and leaving with the other being shot down.

Perhaps a brave message from Turkey that has backfired massively with aircrew being executed.

[Dr Jekyll]

Defcon5 said:

We seem to regularly send jets to intercept Russian planes flying close to UK airspace, do they have orders to shoot down the Russians of they stray over the imaginary line?

In short, yes. We don't know exactly where the relevant line is or how many warnings would be given, but the option of shooting them down is there. The intercepting aircraft are always armed.

[Rovinghawk]

When Hitler sent planes into Russian airspace the Russian Air Force commander offered to shoot them down.

Stalin: "Are you mad? We don't want to provoke them"

Interesting history.

[TVR1]

RYH64E said:

The Russian jet wasn't in Turkish airspace when it was shot down, it had left Turkish airspace, was heading away from Turkey, and posed no threat. It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.

I guess we can't be too hypocritical....

Belgrano springs to mind.

[s2art]

TVR1 said:

RYH64E said:

The Russian jet wasn't in Turkish airspace when it was shot down, it had left Turkish airspace, was heading away from Turkey, and posed no threat. It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.

I guess we can't be too hypocritical....

Belgrano springs to mind.

Hardly. The Falklands had already been invaded.

[yellowjack]

woowahwoo said:

NATO's statement: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_125052.htm

Worrying turn of phrase...

NATO Secretary General said:

I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and I call for calm and de-escalation.

In the military, 'Contact' is only EVER used to describe coming under effective enemy fire. I wouldn't be looking forward to any kind of "contact" involving Moscow and Ankara in the current situation...

"Hello NATO HQ, this is Turkey. Contact. Wait. Out..."

NATO HQ: "Oh FFS! WWIII has started..."

[Countdown]

fido said:

It's no fun defending the Ruskies (two civilian airliners come to mind - perhaps they need to reflect on this) .. but this is analagous to walking over the corner of someone's land - yes it's trespass, but more of an annoyance that a direct threat.

Or bombing somebody's mates and then walking along their fence flicking V's at them....

This may have been pointed out already but the Russians are mainly bombing the moderate nutters rather than the extreme nutters. The moderate nutters are our allies (the extreme nutters are our allies' allies...)

Say what you like about the Russkies but at least they seem to be consistent, whereas our actions in the region seem similar to a game of "Spin the bottle"

[hidetheelephants]

AJS- said:

The trouble with that is that I don't see any obvious gain for Russia in antagonising Turkey or drawing them into this conflict. What am I missing?

The turks are already in this up to their necks; they lost no time in responding to recent atrocities by ISIS by bombing Kurdish bases, the Kurds being the only protagonists in Syria that can remotely be called 'the good guys', being for stuff like female emancipation, freedom of expression, democracy etc. At the very least Erdogan needs an interview without tea or biscuits with NATO.

[Countdown]

dandarez said:

rich85uk said:

i do hope both pilots were killed quickly, and the one where his parachute fails from the shooting i really hope he was dead before he fell

sadly they were just sitting ducks, listen to the 'moderate rebels' laugh RIP

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ae_1448377068

Worse, far worse, imo than the actual aircraft being shot down.

Murderous moderate bds.

Unless I'm mistaken... isn't it the "moderate rebels" who are being bombed continuously by the Russians? What do you think normally happens in these circumstances?

[saaby93]

Countdown said:

Say what you like about the Russkies but at least they seem to be consistent, whereas our actions in the region seem similar to a game of "Spin the bottle"

I asked who side we were on in another thread

[Vaud]

Kawasicki said:

It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.

Poor analogy.

Shooting someone because they have been in your front garden carrying massive weapons and have not heeded numerous warnings, and then you shoot them once with the minimum force you could/

[discusdave]

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger ...



Three steps as announced by top brass:

Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended

[Troubleatmill]

Defcon5 said:

We seem to regularly send jets to intercept Russian planes flying close to UK airspace, do they have orders to shoot down the Russians of they stray over the imaginary line?

How close would you like a fully loaded Russian bomber potentially carrying nukes to get to you before deciding... "Hmmm... they are taking the wee.."?

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

dandarez said:

rich85uk said:

i do hope both pilots were killed quickly, and the one where his parachute fails from the shooting i really hope he was dead before he fell

sadly they were just sitting ducks, listen to the 'moderate rebels' laugh RIP

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ae_1448377068

Worse, far worse, imo than the actual aircraft being shot down.

Murderous moderate bds.

Unless I'm mistaken... isn't it the "moderate rebels" who are being bombed continuously by the Russians? What do you think normally happens in these circumstances?

That was my thought. They've just been bombed for days, sitting ducks without any anti aircraft defences and by some amazing stroke of luck witnessed the aircraft shot down by the Turks. You can see why they're celebrating.

I doubt many aircrew expect to survive after bailing out over people they've been bombing.

[rich85uk]

As predicted Russia has has taken a calm and soft approach to ensure this does not happen again:

1.Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
2.Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
3.Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended

oops...
https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-mili...

[Puggit]

I have a lot of Russian friends, generally anti-Putin. They are all pretty angry about this. Russian press is stating that according to Russian ATC, there was no infringing of Turkish airspace.

[RYH64E]

Vaud said:

Poor analogy.

Shooting someone because they have been in your front garden carrying massive weapons and have not heeded numerous warnings, and then you shoot them once with the minimum force you could/

Shoot them when they've left your property, have done no harm whilst on it, and are heading away from it?

[PorkInsider]

Tannedbaldhead said:

It doesn't matter whether it makes the situation worse or not. Why shouldn't a nation have to question itself or be questioned by others with regards to defending its own sovereign territory?

Do you honestly believe that Turkey shot the plane down as an act of defending its territory?

Turkey know exactly what the Russian plane was doing and that, if it had strayed over the line, it wasn't an act of aggression towards Turkey.

Turkey shot the plane down in support of a militia operating in Syria. The fact that the plane appears to have momentarily crossed the Turkish border was very convenient for Turkey.

Russia knows it, Turkey knows it. The rest of NATO knows it.