Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border
Discussion
pops666tt said:
Have you all forgot what Russia is doing in Ukraine. You all seem to sympathise with the Russians like they are your best mates. Some proper ignorant fools on this thread. if anyone violated Russian airspace and were told to leave 10x what do you think would happen? No surprise there..
Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Why the need for the bit in bold?Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
And no idea what 'you all seem to sympathise with Russians like they are your best mates' is about.
Nothing like a bit of over the top generalisation...
Anyway, much of what is being discussed is around Turkey's motivation for bringing a Russian plane down, rather than whether they were within their rights to shoot it down or how Russia would behave if the positions were switched.
pops666tt said:
Have you all forgot what Russia is doing in Ukraine. You all seem to sympathise with the Russians like they are your best mates. Some proper ignorant fools on this thread. if anyone violated Russian airspace and were told to leave 10x what do you think would happen? No surprise there..
Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Russia are the only country who seem to be doing anything about a very big problem that we're all extremely fPutin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
king worried about.Dangerous and volatile yes, the perfect candidate to stand up to ISIS.
vonuber said:
Halb said:
Erdogan...wonder how long he'll last?
He's a real evil fker. Surprised we haven't rolled out the red carpet for him. https://euobserver.com/enlargement/130735
Kawasicki said:
RYH64E said:
The Russian jet wasn't in Turkish airspace when it was shot down, it had left Turkish airspace, was heading away from Turkey, and posed no threat. It's analagous to shooting someone because they've taken a short cut across your front garden.
Yes. It was a completely stupid move.In fact, more different. A commercial passenger jet surely should be less of a target than a military jet.
pops666tt said:
Have you all forgot what Russia is doing in Ukraine. You all seem to sympathise with the Russians like they are your best mates. Some proper ignorant fools on this thread. if anyone violated Russian airspace and were told to leave 10x what do you think would happen? No surprise there..
Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Interesting observation. Objective reasoning and having an ability to not regurgitate the BBC-centric take on current affairs makes you an idiot hey? Happy to be considered an idiot fellow if it makes the sheep like your good self feel warm and cosy inside.Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Putin is the only straight talker in this whole mess. As in every case of this nature; follow the money and not the utter dribble spouted by the MSM and you will find yourself somewhere much closer to the mark. I don't hold my breath in your case though, as to do so you will also become an idiot. And we don't want now do we
pops666tt said:
Have you all forgot what Russia is doing in Ukraine. You all seem to sympathise with the Russians like they are your best mates. Some proper ignorant fools on this thread. if anyone violated Russian airspace and were told to leave 10x what do you think would happen? No surprise there..
Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
True but the international community were too scared to confront Russia over Ukraine and are equally scared to confront ISIS so everyone is quietly hoping Russia will do it for them, and are prepared to overlook Ukraine now.Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Similarly everyone is quietly hoping that Putin takes out Turkey or at least its leader.
Very difficult politically but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread why are the West inisiting that Assad goes. If Assad and Russia weren't there to add extra opposition to the uprising what would Syria look like now. Its messy now but can you imagine if it falls completely
I do not get how anyone let alone our own leaders can back Turkey here.
They've been caught red handed backing isis. Now they're attacking a country doing something about it.
To all those who still think these are moderates you need to open your eyes all of these rebels are powered by jihad. Look at all the groups and how they're either allied or affiliated with al nusra, al Qaida or the fsa. All these groups have committed unspeakable evil.
If this escalates I hope we just throw Turkey to the bear, their act of aggression shouldn't allow them to call on article 5 and if it wasn't for all the US/nato assets based there it'd of been nice to see erdogan get hoist by the neck.
Just remember that erdogan once said "there is no moderate Islam, Islam is Islam"
They've been caught red handed backing isis. Now they're attacking a country doing something about it.
To all those who still think these are moderates you need to open your eyes all of these rebels are powered by jihad. Look at all the groups and how they're either allied or affiliated with al nusra, al Qaida or the fsa. All these groups have committed unspeakable evil.
If this escalates I hope we just throw Turkey to the bear, their act of aggression shouldn't allow them to call on article 5 and if it wasn't for all the US/nato assets based there it'd of been nice to see erdogan get hoist by the neck.
Just remember that erdogan once said "there is no moderate Islam, Islam is Islam"
Edited by MrBrightSi on Wednesday 25th November 07:59
pops666tt said:
Have you all forgot what Russia is doing in Ukraine. You all seem to sympathise with the Russians like they are your best mates. Some proper ignorant fools on this thread. if anyone violated Russian airspace and were told to leave 10x what do you think would happen? No surprise there..
Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
Have you forgotten why Russia is doing what it is doing in Ukraine?Putin is a dangerous man and volatile.
It's minor and will boil over. The Turks don't want to be messed around too and will not be afraid to show it, as they have done. Russian or not.
You're right, there are some ignorant fools on here. Welcome.
bigkeeko said:
No one is disputing Putin`s temperament but Turkey wouldn`t have said boo to Russia had they not been part of NATO and had split loyalties on what's happening in their area.
And for that reason I don`t trust them.
I feel the same, I trust Erdogan less than I do Putin. Appears the Russian plane was in Turk airspace (if indeed it was) for no more than 17 seconds, yet the Turks claim they warned the russian aircraft 10 times. That is plainly impossible. Seems the Turks in at least part are lying. And for that reason I don`t trust them.
It all smells of a contrived situation, Erdogan finding any weak excuse to attack Russian aircraft. There has been allegations of Turkish undercover assistance of ISIS for a long while , this only helps to give those allegations credence.
Meanwhile the Russian foreign minister has cancelled a prearranged official visit to Turkey , and ISIS must be laughing their heads off.
Serious stuff
menousername said:
Very difficult politically but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread why are the West inisiting that Assad goes. If Assad and Russia weren't there to add extra opposition to the uprising what would Syria look like now. Its messy now but can you imagine if it falls completely
With IS next door to Lebanon! If not for Hanlon's Razor I'd assume that endless proxy war in the ME is somehow the preferred choice of the West given their love of encouraging rebellions but offering no/slow support at critical moments. I'm increasingly of the opinion that Erdogan could benefit from a cold shoulder or ten. What he's done to his own country aside, he needs to look up Proxy War in the dictionary unless he's trying to be this decades Gavrilo Princip.
Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 25th November 08:29
1) Putin is a bully. He has been orchestrating large numbers of incursions by Russian military aircraft into Western airspace. Our leaders have done nothing. Erdogan issued a warning to Putin to stop doing this over Turkey.
2) The Turkomen people in Syria were oppressed and brutalised by Assad. After the revolution Turkey armed, fed, trained them to look after themselves. Russia has been bombing them like crazy, whilst leaving ISIS alone. Erdogan issued Russia a warning about this.
3) ISIS are concerned with the "near war" of building a caliphate. It is al Qaeda who engage in the "far war" against the West.
4) We attacked and started killing ISIS first, before they harmed any Westerner.
5) There are many ISIS clients and lone wolves in the world who do things in the name of ISIS but who are not controlled by ISIS. As with the Sinai shooting down.
6) In Syria the problem is Assad. He has murdered maybe 300,000 people, he has dropped thousands of barrel bombs on bread queues, markets, schools, medical centres.
7) The refugee problem in Syria was caused by Assad. The migrant hordes arriving in Europe was caused by Assad.
8) Erdogan wants to get rid of Assad. Putin wants to keep Assad. They are both working hard to achieve their aims.
9) The shot down Russian jet had already done one bombing run against the Turkomen. It then went into an orbit, crossing Turkey, whilst waiting for further instruction. Turkey shot it down on the second orbit.
10) The Russian military is run down, out of date and stretched. The Russian economy is in the toilet. Putin has zero manoevre room.
11) Just now Russia is crippled by a huge truck drivers strike, the power to Crimea has been cut by Ukrainian resistance, there is the aftermath of the Sinai airliner explosion, the war in Eastern Ukraine continues. Putin is in the poo up to his nose.
12) Turkey gets 60% of its gas from Russia, But it has pipelines to Iran and Azerbaijan. Cutting off the gas will harm Russia far more than it hurts Turkey.
13) Russia needs the Bosporus for its navy to get to the Mediterranean and for the supply ships for its Syrian expeditionary force. Erdogan can close this any time he wants.
14) The allies bombing ISIS are using 100% smart weapons to minimise collateral. Russia is bombing the "good" rebels nearly 100% and is using mostly very inaccurate dumb bombs and cluster munitions. They are killing far more civilians than fighters.
This morning Putin is getting his revenge by bombing the Turkomen like crazy. Do not expect Erdogan to be happy about this.
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