Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border
Discussion
Esseesse said:
Adam Ansel said:
1) Putin is a bully. He has been orchestrating large numbers of incursions by Russian military aircraft into Western airspace. Our leaders have done nothing. Erdogan issued a warning to Putin to stop doing this over Turkey.
Whose airspace? I didn't know about this...
The SU 24 seemed to be just taking a short cut. Did the Turks threaten to shoot down the Russian jet prior to doing it? All I've heard was a request to change course, nothing about shooting anyone, not withstanding Turkey moving "their" airspace 5mi into Syria. Is there an overlay of airspace vs borders available for this yet?
Adam Ansel said:
6) In Syria the problem is Assad. He has murdered maybe 300,000 people, he has dropped thousands of barrel bombs on bread queues, markets, schools, medical centres.
7) The refugee problem in Syria was caused by Assad. The migrant hordes arriving in Europe was caused by Assad.
Barrel bombs ? Do you actually know what a barrel bomb is ? Using the term without realising it is a metal container filled with explosives, you know just like any other unguided aerial dropped explosive munition. Oh nooooooo barrel bombs, sounds so much worse. Do you not wonder, if Assad was so evil and bad, how he has managed to survive, fighting a war on multiple fronts for so long? someone think he is not too bad, willing to die for the actual internationally recognised Syrian government.7) The refugee problem in Syria was caused by Assad. The migrant hordes arriving in Europe was caused by Assad.
Asaad did not cause the refugee problem, the huge support for terrorists and Islamist by Turkey / USA/ Saudi and Quatar created a quagmire of death for the civilians. Do you think we would be here, if outside nations had not poured HUGE amounts of cash for mercenaries, buying the cut price oil, and pumping weapons and training into Syria? The CIA / Saudi / Turkey have been training "moderate" (moderate Islamist is like being moderately pregnant) Islamist fighters, supplying them with weapons (MANPADS, TOW missiles) and money. Al Qaeda now have US made TOW missiles for goodness sake.
Let's have a look at the recent dictator removals and how successful they have been.
Libya - Stable, quite prosperous country turned into a failed state with a bloody civil war, destabilising the entire region. Perhaps Gaddafi knew what was brewing in Benghazi, understood the danger it posed. Cameron and Sarkozy clearly did not. Remember the terrorist who shot the British tourists in Tunisia was trained in..... The terrorists who killed the oil plant workers in Mali were trained in...... Yes, Libya.
Iraq - Taken from a moderately stable but damaged state (Due to UN sanctions, you know cash for oil, but lets children die sanctions) into a hugely failed state, providing a breeding ground for psychotic terrorists which have destabilised the entire region, including Syria!
Assad presided over a stable secular country, it is now a religiously divided, wreck. Want to really sort out Syria? let Assad and Russia clean out the hornets nest that has been created, then consider the luxury of democracy.
Do you notice a trend at all ?
glazbagun said:
I may need a whoosh parrot. Russia/USSR has been flying planes into our airspace for Decades to test our air defences. We then send up a plane, tell them they're approaching our airspace, escort them out and take some snazzy photo's alongside Russian bombers
The SU 24 seemed to be just taking a short cut. Did the Turks threaten to shoot down the Russian jet prior to doing it? All I've heard was a request to change course, nothing about shooting anyone, not withstanding Turkey moving "their" airspace 5mi into Syria. Is there an overlay of airspace vs borders available for this yet?
to be fair this did make me wonder a little - I've declared a 15 mile air-exclusion zone round my borders. What this means is that you and your allies are not allowed to fly in your own airspace... hmmmmmm. Total bThe SU 24 seemed to be just taking a short cut. Did the Turks threaten to shoot down the Russian jet prior to doing it? All I've heard was a request to change course, nothing about shooting anyone, not withstanding Turkey moving "their" airspace 5mi into Syria. Is there an overlay of airspace vs borders available for this yet?
ks the Turks are really being a bunch of s hereglazbagun said:
I may need a whoosh parrot. Russia/USSR has been flying planes into our airspace for Decades to test our air defences. We then send up a plane, tell them they're approaching our airspace, escort them out and take some snazzy photo's alongside Russian bombers
The upside is it keeps our air defences well drilled. Better than a pre-planned exercise?Halb said:
Richie200 said:
rb26 said:
Right on the money with this video! You won't see it on the BBC mindtholes.We're led by greedy mad b
ds.d than Putin. That doesn't make Erdogan any less of a st.QuantumTokoloshi said:
Barrel bombs ? Do you actually know what a barrel bomb is ? Using the term without realising it is a metal container filled with explosives, you know just like any other unguided aerial dropped explosive munition. Oh nooooooo barrel bombs, sounds so much worse. Do you not wonder, if Assad was so evil and bad, how he has managed to survive, fighting a war on multiple fronts for so long? someone think he is not too bad, willing to die for the actual internationally recognised Syrian government.
A barrel bomb generally contains HE along with shrapnel and oil; its an indiscriminate weapon designed to induce terror in the local population and is tactically useless unless your really targeting civilians.Assad is a massive
however im not sure hes any worse than the alternatives in the area.I am sorry that some here are ignorant of the FACTS.
We started killing Islamic State people in air strikes on 8 August 2014.
ISIS killed James Wright Foley, the first Westerner harmed, on 19 August 2014.
ISIS have been demonised by our politicians and media.
They are no worse than Saudi Arabia, who gouge out eyes and are currently mass murdering civilians in Yemen, but who are our allies.
ISIS are building a country, Islamic State, by a process of stealing land and of genocide. This is exactly how the USA and the state of Israel were created.
We started killing Islamic State people in air strikes on 8 August 2014.
ISIS killed James Wright Foley, the first Westerner harmed, on 19 August 2014.
ISIS have been demonised by our politicians and media.
They are no worse than Saudi Arabia, who gouge out eyes and are currently mass murdering civilians in Yemen, but who are our allies.
ISIS are building a country, Islamic State, by a process of stealing land and of genocide. This is exactly how the USA and the state of Israel were created.
irocfan said:
to be fair this did make me wonder a little - I've declared a 15 mile air-exclusion zone round my borders. What this means is that you and your allies are not allowed to fly in your own airspace... hmmmmmm. Total bks the Turks are really being a bunch of s here
No-fly zones have been done before on the basis of protecting civilian populations. The Russians are helping the Syrian Army attack the Turkmen population on the Turkish border (and they are nothing to do with ISIL). Plenty of precedent for this where a country is in civil war and has no legitimate, functioning government (or has one which is committing war crimes).ks the Turks are really being a bunch of s hereThis will blow over, despite the panicky reactions on this thread. Turkey has very strong conventional forces and it would take an all-out attack by the Russians, with no NATO intervention, to subdue them, which simply won't happen. There will be some sabre-rattling and posturing then this will be resolved behind the scenes.
Russian airspace incursions, an old CCCP tactic, were revived by Putin.
Learn.
Here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ful...
Here: http://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/medialibr...
Here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/r...
Learn.
Here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ful...
Here: http://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/medialibr...
Here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/r...
glazbagun said:
Russia/USSR has been flying planes into our airspace for Decades
No, they have habitually exercised the right to fly in sections of international airspace that the we have deemed to be parts of the UK Air Defence Identification Zone, which includes areas of international airspace where the UK will routinely intercept and identify unknown traffic.The fact the Russians choose to exercise this right without turning on their transponders and without notifying any civilian air traffic authorities responsible for these often very busy areas of airspace marks them out as annoying knobbers, but won't get them shot down.
Violating sovereign airspace, rather than mucking about in someone's ADIZ in international airspace, is a different kettle of fish, particularly if you are in the process of firing live weapons in the immediate vicinity - whilst the final Russian airspace violation was extremely brief, they had been making a point of making repeated previous incursions - and besides having the riot act read to them by the Turks on the standard Guard frequency, their on-board threat detection systems would have repeatedly been lit up like a Christmas tree as the Turks got progressively more pissed off with their antics. The Russians calculated - wrongly, as it turns out - that the Turks ultimately wouldn't have the bottle to do anything about it.
Whether the Turks are now regretting it is another matter.
Edited by eharding on Wednesday 25th November 10:09
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Let's have a look at the recent dictator removals and how successful they have been.
Libya - Stable, quite prosperous country turned into a failed state with a bloody civil war, destabilising the entire region. Perhaps Gaddafi knew what was brewing in Benghazi, understood the danger it posed. Cameron and Sarkozy clearly did not. Remember the terrorist who shot the British tourists in Tunisia was trained in..... The terrorists who killed the oil plant workers in Mali were trained in...... Yes, Libya.
Iraq - Taken from a moderately stable but damaged state (Due to UN sanctions, you know cash for oil, but lets children die sanctions) into a hugely failed state, providing a breeding ground for psychotic terrorists which have destabilised the entire region, including Syria!
Assad presided over a stable secular country, it is now a religiously divided, wreck. Want to really sort out Syria? let Assad and Russia clean out the hornets nest that has been created, then consider the luxury of democracy.
Do you notice a trend at all ?
Same trend I've noticed & every reason anyone should ever need to make us keep our noses out of sLibya - Stable, quite prosperous country turned into a failed state with a bloody civil war, destabilising the entire region. Perhaps Gaddafi knew what was brewing in Benghazi, understood the danger it posed. Cameron and Sarkozy clearly did not. Remember the terrorist who shot the British tourists in Tunisia was trained in..... The terrorists who killed the oil plant workers in Mali were trained in...... Yes, Libya.
Iraq - Taken from a moderately stable but damaged state (Due to UN sanctions, you know cash for oil, but lets children die sanctions) into a hugely failed state, providing a breeding ground for psychotic terrorists which have destabilised the entire region, including Syria!
Assad presided over a stable secular country, it is now a religiously divided, wreck. Want to really sort out Syria? let Assad and Russia clean out the hornets nest that has been created, then consider the luxury of democracy.
Do you notice a trend at all ?
t that ain't our concern.Adam Ansel said:
Hey, Richie200,
Being rude and abusive is no excuse for your ignorance.
Sorry fellow, not really intended, more a case of bringing a little humour into the arena. Being rude and abusive is no excuse for your ignorance.
Edited by Adam Ansel on Wednesday 25th November 09:45
I'd be very grateful for you to explain my ignorance. Go easy on me now.
irocfan said:
to be fair this did make me wonder a little - I've declared a 15 mile air-exclusion zone round my borders. What this means is that you and your allies are not allowed to fly in your own airspace... hmmmmmm.
Maybe this means they send a message "You're getting a bit close, be careful about not trespassing"?Adam Ansel said:
I am sorry that some here are ignorant of the FACTS.
We started killing Islamic State people in air strikes on 8 August 2014.
ISIS killed James Wright Foley, the first Westerner harmed, on 19 August 2014.
ISIS have been demonised by our politicians and media.
They are no worse than Saudi Arabia, who gouge out eyes and are currently mass murdering civilians in Yemen, but who are our allies.
ISIS are building a country, Islamic State, by a process of stealing land and of genocide. This is exactly how the USA and the state of Israel were created.
So the west stands by while ISIS perpetrate war crimes, mass murder , and genocide do they? The mass murder of "unbelievers" has been one of their stated aims since day one. We started killing Islamic State people in air strikes on 8 August 2014.
ISIS killed James Wright Foley, the first Westerner harmed, on 19 August 2014.
ISIS have been demonised by our politicians and media.
They are no worse than Saudi Arabia, who gouge out eyes and are currently mass murdering civilians in Yemen, but who are our allies.
ISIS are building a country, Islamic State, by a process of stealing land and of genocide. This is exactly how the USA and the state of Israel were created.
Like said, you are delusional.
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