Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border

[Lucas Ayde]

p1stonhead said:

But they lost a soldier who went in to rescue him.....

Is that a win overall?

At least the soldier died fighting on a (ultimately successful) mission - unlike the dead pilot who was gunned down while parachuting out of his plane in a warcrime by the 'good' Islamic insurgents.

[Bluebarge]

rich1231 said:

Turkey should not be in NATO. Insane to have allowed them entry. They shor the plane down knowing NATO had to piblically support them.

Don't be silly. They control Russia's access to the Med and have a window on the Black Sea, they bring stability to that area of the world and have been a key ally for some years. Russia was pushing the boundaries (and is conducting an entirely different war in Syria to everyone else - ISIS are just a peripheral target to them)and got its fingers burnt. WW3 is not about to break out so calm down.

[FourWheelDrift]

Turkey and Greece hate each other with more anger than Russia hates Turkey right now.

Greek - Turkish war 1919-1922 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1...
Turkish invasion of Cyprus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_...


Greece and Turkey are both in NATO.


Russia will continue doing what Russia has been doing and Turkey will get away with doing what Turkey has always been getting away with doing.

[Bluebarge]

Lucas Ayde said:

At least the soldier died fighting on a (ultimately successful) mission - unlike the dead pilot who was gunned down while parachuting out of his plane in a warcrime by the 'good' Islamic insurgents.

Almost everyone in that part of the world is Islamic (including the Turks) so it's barely worth mentioning, unless you're confusing "Islamic" with "islamist" in which case you might want to do a bit of basic research.

[otolith]

If you've just been bombing the st out of someone's village, it's probably optimistic to expect a friendly reception from the natives.

[RobGT81]

Now that the Russian bombers have fighter escort, would the Turks do the same again or will they bottle it over a massive dogfight?

Edited by RobGT81 on Wednesday 25th November 12:15

[Rude-boy]

p1stonhead said:

But they lost a soldier who went in to rescue him.....

Is that a win overall?

I think that the answer to that will lie in who they lost. On an economic level did it take longer and cost more to train the lost solider or the lost pilot, speaking in pure unemotional terms.

[glazbagun]

Bluebarge said:

rich1231 said:

Turkey should not be in NATO. Insane to have allowed them entry. They shor the plane down knowing NATO had to piblically support them.

Don't be silly. They control Russia's access to the Med and have a window on the Black Sea, they bring stability to that area of the world and have been a key ally for some years. Russia was pushing the boundaries (and is conducting an entirely different war in Syria to everyone else - ISIS are just a peripheral target to them <and Turkey>)and got its fingers burnt. WW3 is not about to break out so calm down.

As someone else said. it's hardly the Cuban Missile Crisis. But it have the feel of a WWI analogue with a power vacuum in the former Ottoman Empire, nations attacking the allies of other nations and making judgements as to the likely response, other countries potentially being dragged in because of alliances.

[Halb]

FourWheelDrift said:

Turkey and Greece hate each other with more anger than Russia hates Turkey right now.

Greek - Turkish war 1919-1922 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1...
Turkish invasion of Cyprus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_...


Greece and Turkey are both in NATO.


Russia will continue doing what Russia has been doing and Turkey will get away with doing what Turkey has always been getting away with doing.

I think so.

[C.A.R.]

RobGT81 said:

Now that the Russian bombers have fighter escort, would the Turks do the same again or will they bottle it over a massive dogfight?

Edited by RobGT81 on Wednesday 25th November 12:15

Let's just hope the Russian fighter jets have dash cams fitted if such an event should unfold.

[kidding...sort of]

[cirian75]

I think the rest of the world like me would assume, if you shoot down a military plane that has violated your airspace when you shoot it down, it still has to be in your airspace when the missile hits it!

[stripy7]

• Cough* General Belgrano *Cough*

[Ganglandboss]

stripy7 said:

*Cough* General Belgrano *Cough*

What about it?

[stripy7]

Ganglandboss said:

stripy7 said:

*Cough* General Belgrano *Cough*

What about it?

Read the comment above mine.

[cirian75]

stripy7 said:

*Cough* General Belgrano *Cough*

the Argentinian politicians still rave on about that, the Argentinian navy while not happy admit it was fair game.

[Ganglandboss]

stripy7 said:

Ganglandboss said:

stripy7 said:

*Cough* General Belgrano *Cough*

What about it?

Read the comment above mine.

This one?

cirian75 said:

I think the rest of the world like me would assume, if you shoot down a military plane that has violated your airspace when you shoot it down, it still has to be in your airspace when the missile hits it!

The UK and Argentina were at war and any belligerent vessel is a threat. Turkey and Russia are not at war, and while Turkey has a right to defend its airspace, I cannot see how attacking after the threat has passed is reasonable.

[allnighter]

Pesty said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Barrel bombs ? Do you actually know what a barrel bomb is ? Using the term without realising it is a metal container filled with explosives, you know just like any other unguided aerial dropped explosive munition. Oh nooooooo barrel bombs, sounds so much worse. Do you not wonder, if Assad was so evil and bad, how he has managed to survive, fighting a war on multiple fronts for so long? someone think he is not too bad, willing to die for the actual internationally recognised Syrian government.

Asaad did not cause the refugee problem, the huge support for terrorists and Islamist by Turkey / USA/ Saudi and Quatar created a quagmire of death for the civilians. Do you think we would be here, if outside nations had not poured HUGE amounts of cash for mercenaries, buying the cut price oil, and pumping weapons and training into Syria? The CIA / Saudi / Turkey have been training "moderate" (moderate Islamist is like being moderately pregnant) Islamist fighters, supplying them with weapons (MANPADS, TOW missiles) and money. Al Qaeda now have US made TOW missiles for goodness sake.

Let's have a look at the recent dictator removals and how successful they have been.

Libya - Stable, quite prosperous country turned into a failed state with a bloody civil war, destabilising the entire region. Perhaps Gaddafi knew what was brewing in Benghazi, understood the danger it posed. Cameron and Sarkozy clearly did not. Remember the terrorist who shot the British tourists in Tunisia was trained in..... The terrorists who killed the oil plant workers in Mali were trained in...... Yes, Libya.

Iraq - Taken from a moderately stable but damaged state (Due to UN sanctions, you know cash for oil, but lets children die sanctions) into a hugely failed state, providing a breeding ground for psychotic terrorists which have destabilised the entire region, including Syria!

Assad presided over a stable secular country, it is now a religiously divided, wreck. Want to really sort out Syria? let Assad and Russia clean out the hornets nest that has been created, then consider the luxury of democracy.

Do you notice a trend at all ?

spot on imo

I could not agree more!

[stripy7]

Ganglandboss said:

The UK and Argentina were at war and any belligerent vessel is a threat. Turkey and Russia are not at war, and while Turkey has a right to defend its airspace, I cannot see how attacking after the threat has passed is reasonable.

I suggest you read up on who the Russians were bombing.

[RobGT81]

stripy7 said:

I suggest you read up on who the Russians were bombing.

Well it wasn't Turkey?

[Guvernator]

stripy7 said:

I suggest you read up on who the Russians were bombing.

Yep the Turkmens the Russians where bombing are effectively resettled Turks (the clues in the name). Add to that the fact that Russia have seem to have been pushing the airspace boundaries on that border for quite some time and I think Turkey were just itching for a chance to retaliate in some-way and the Russian pilots incursion into Turkish airspace, even if for a few seconds provided them with a perfectly legitimate excuse.

Yes on paper they are technically "allies" but in reality I think the situation is far more complicated.