Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border

[Halb]

Turkey is like Russia...because only Russia has sold weapons to fundies in the Middle East and supported Islamic mentals?

[saaby93]

Turkey claiming it didnt realise plane was Russian

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34940109

That should work ?

[danllama]

Even if they DIDN'T believe it to be Russian (which i don't believe for a second), what would they expect it to be?? They don't have any enemies flying fast jets in the area!!!

[irocfan]

danllama said:

Even if they DIDN'T believe it to be Russian (which i don't believe for a second), what would they expect it to be?? They don't have any enemies flying fast jets in the area!!!

with a stretch they may have thought Syrian

[plasticpig]

eharding said:

Why not? In the general case, the act of 'interception' is simply to close with and visually identify another aircraft - provided the interceptor has sufficient performance to match the other aircraft, it can be tasked to do so.

During the London Olympics, lethargic Army helicopters were tasked with intercepting even more lethargic civilian traffic.

Interception protocols are exactly that - the ICAO documentation is one manifestation, but the whole point is that you don't *know* that the target of an interception is civilian, military, or Elvis and John Denver on a comeback tour. So everyone plays by the same rules, or at least attempts to do so - or either wilfully or through incompetence ignores them, and gets shot down as a result.

Hence your assertion that 'because military' the protocols don't apply, or that the pilots involved wouldn't be aware of them, is pure bunkum.

Edited by eharding on Friday 27th November 00:30

Doesn't matter what the protocols say because there appears to be no requirement that Russian millary pilots can speak English. That article also says that the Russians rejected a US request that their pilots speak English while flying in Syria. It appears the Russians believe a civilian protocol doesn't apply to their millaty.

[plasticpig]

irocfan said:

with a stretch they may have thought Syrian

Syria had or has SU24 aircraft so it's possible.

[Cobnapint]

Russia's goes into 'over the top mode'.

They've begun deporting Turkish businessmen, seizing Turkish products on 'safety' grounds (an oldie, but goody), banned Russians from holidaying in Turkey, suspended trade agreements and new gas pipeline proposals etc etc etc.

[Elroy Blue]

Turkish President doing what Despots do best. Arresting journalists who revealed their support of IS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34939916

[el romeral]

Am finding it more and more scary that a clown like that is in charge of a country so near to our shores, which is trying to get into the EU and already in NATO. He needs taking out more than Assad ever did.

[Guvernator]

el romeral said:

Am finding it more and more scary that a clown like that is in charge of a country so near to our shores, which is trying to get into the EU and already in NATO. He needs taking out more than Assad ever did.

^^^This, he is a maniac of the highest order. Apart from a long a bitter history with Greece, Turkey used to be a very moderate Muslim country and was getting more modern and westernised year on year so would have been perfectly placed to be a bridge between Europe and the Middle-East.

Unfortunately Erdogan has spent the last 12 years in power throwing all that away as he tries to turn the country into a fundamental nut house, what's more worrying is that with his total control of the media, police and military, he seems to have convinced a good part of the rather naive and uneducated population that this is actually a good idea.

It's actually become a country divided now with the saner rational educated West Vs the fundamentalist middle\east of Turkey. Unfortunately their seem to be a lot more people buying into his regime than not and this is mostly due to the low level of education in the country and his total control of everything. He has asset stripped the entire country, selling things off for a nice profit, making dodgy deals, he even got caught with millions of Euro's of cash in shoe-boxes in his house and he somehow still managed to sweep it under the carpet. He has come from nowhere (I think he was a bus driver) to become one of the richest men in the world (estimates of his wealth are in the billions) within a short space of time and I think it will end with civil war or him pissing off the wrong country which may have already happened.

With my tinfoil hat I can't help but see a very similar MO to what has happened to other countries in that region, bring in a despot, destabilise the country and then use it as a pretext to move in.

[bitchstewie]

IIRC he banned Twitter during the elections to stifle any criticism.

Not a nice man or place by all account.

[Countdown]

bhstewie said:

IIRC he banned Twitter during the elections to stifle any criticism.

Not a nice man or place by all account.

Yep - but one that we/NATO are standing foursquare behind

All this "supporting" various despots whilst bombing others, arming various terrorist groups/freedom fighters whilst bombing others.... is it just me or does there seem to be a lack of consistency in our political approach?

To put it another way, we are rolling around in a sewer of st. And Cameron wants us to become even more involved. The UK bombing ISIS will not make a jot of difference to the long term situation in the ME. It's only benefit will be for Dave to willy-wave at the next G8 meeting.

We need to get out and stay out.

[Hilts]

What was the benefit to the existing NATO members allowing Turkey to join NATO versus the potential drawbacks?

[Pesty]

Russia seem to be hitting turkeys allies pretty hard. Perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to poke the bear.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n2C5aAxpRGM

[Ayahuasca]

I wonder what the protocol is for rescuing downed aviators in Isis territory?

Do they have drone aircraft orbiting near the target zone, to have eyes on a downed pilot and to suppress any hostile moves towards him/her? And a SF unit on instant standby to attempt an extraction? Can aircrew have an implanted location device a la James Bond? Do they even exist?

If anyone knows, prolly best not to say so. This is for idle speculation only.

[allnighter]

Elroy Blue said:

Turkish President doing what Despots do best. Arresting journalists who revealed their support of IS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34939916

Shhhhuuuush, he's our ally in the region, like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain etc... He can do no wrong.

[Guvernator]

Hilts said:

What was the benefit to the existing NATO members allowing Turkey to join NATO versus the potential drawbacks?

I suspect the fact that they are right on the doorstep of Russia and most of the Middle East "problem" areas makes then a useful ally in terms of being able to base assets there, launch missions and even act as a screen between the dodier parts of the ME and the rest of Europe, at least that was certainly the case before Erdogan got into power, however he seems to have reversed a lot of those advantages now as no one seems to know where his allegiance lies.

[Pesty]

This is hardly surprising but at least we are not going to get an escalation from this part of the world going trigger happy on Russian planes


http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israel-wont-down-a-...

[allnighter]

Pesty said:

Russia seem to be hitting turkeys allies pretty hard. Perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to poke the bear.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n2C5aAxpRGM

Wonder how many civilians died in that intense bombing? Wish they dropped one on the camera holder just to shut him up!

[plasticpig]

Hilts said:

What was the benefit to the existing NATO members allowing Turkey to join NATO versus the potential drawbacks?

Control of the Bosphorus was a big factor.