Discussion
otolith said:
FredClogs said:
Dogs aren't carnivorous either... Not many mammals are, cats are the only ones that spring to mind, maybe whales but they eat fish, does that count? (they don't have canines either)
Hedgehogs.Moles.
Shrews.
Most bats.
Wolves, various other canids.
Various other felids besides the domesticated cat.
Weasels, stoats, ferrets, polecats, mink, martens, Otters, wolverines, various other mustelids.
Mongooses, meerkats.
Sealions, seals, walruses.
Polar bears.
Lots of other species which predominantly eat other animals but which also eat significant amounts of vegetable matter.
Can you list the omnivorous and herbivorous mammals now? For comparison. (Google says there are 5,416 mammalian species hth)
BTW Colin the fruit bat only ate rowntrees fruit pastels.
Eating meat isn't bad for you - but eating meat to the extent we do is... we aren't designed to eat the amount of meat we do... it's that simple. Our gut / internals is actually more in line with eating veg / fruit as meat is not easily broken down and digested by the human body - again, it's doable - but actually, meat will sit in our gut for a lot longer than its supposed to... again, the US and UK health orgs have said for many years that meat (red meat moreso) is cancerous and not good for us... this new report is not news. The answer is eating a very little meat and from good sources... having meat with every meal is unnecessary other than from a cultural / conditioned stand point. Many sports people are vege / vegan and compete at the highest levels. I saw one boxer who is a meat eater - but stops eating meat weeks before a match because he said he could feel it inside him slowing him and his muscles down. There's a lot of interesting stuff that has floated around for a long time but that is now becoming more common knowledge.
The thing I find the most fascinating is the stressed and angry reactions from your generic meat eater who can't just say - like a smoker might: "I like meat so screw it..." - they seem to have to claim falsehoods and misinformation to back their standpoints.
I think eating meat will always be morally questionable... we are the most successful species on Earth so why shouldn't we? We are the most advanced species on Earth and so should show compassion toward other species; blah blah - neither standpoint is wrong. I can see both sides. Aside from morality... health wise; the report is not new news; it's old news and the answer seems to be; eat meat from good sources; not mass produced rubbish - and eat a lot less of it.
I've talked with many vege' / vegans over the years - they are, in general, idealistic and I admire their conviction. I feel no need to mock it as I'm happy to concede that their points are for the most part; correct. The worry is - where does one draw the line? Most of what we do impacts the environment and affects the earth and other species around us... where anyone draws their own line is up to them and it should simply be respected / debated / considered...
The thing I find the most fascinating is the stressed and angry reactions from your generic meat eater who can't just say - like a smoker might: "I like meat so screw it..." - they seem to have to claim falsehoods and misinformation to back their standpoints.
I think eating meat will always be morally questionable... we are the most successful species on Earth so why shouldn't we? We are the most advanced species on Earth and so should show compassion toward other species; blah blah - neither standpoint is wrong. I can see both sides. Aside from morality... health wise; the report is not new news; it's old news and the answer seems to be; eat meat from good sources; not mass produced rubbish - and eat a lot less of it.
I've talked with many vege' / vegans over the years - they are, in general, idealistic and I admire their conviction. I feel no need to mock it as I'm happy to concede that their points are for the most part; correct. The worry is - where does one draw the line? Most of what we do impacts the environment and affects the earth and other species around us... where anyone draws their own line is up to them and it should simply be respected / debated / considered...
FredClogs said:
otolith said:
FredClogs said:
Dogs aren't carnivorous either... Not many mammals are, cats are the only ones that spring to mind, maybe whales but they eat fish, does that count? (they don't have canines either)
Hedgehogs.Moles.
Shrews.
Most bats.
Wolves, various other canids.
Various other felids besides the domesticated cat.
Weasels, stoats, ferrets, polecats, mink, martens, Otters, wolverines, various other mustelids.
Mongooses, meerkats.
Sealions, seals, walruses.
Polar bears.
Lots of other species which predominantly eat other animals but which also eat significant amounts of vegetable matter.
Can you list the omnivorous and herbivorous mammals now? For comparison. (Google says there are 5,416 mammalian species hth)
FredClogs said:
BTW Colin the fruit bat only ate rowntrees fruit pastels.
After his fame passed, Colin died penniless, toothless and diabetic, it's a sad story.FredClogs said:
And yet vegans don't just drop dead... It's a mystery innit all this biology guff...
My understanding is that there are 2 amino acid humans need that cannot come from vegan sources.Vegans get these supplements from the chemist. They tend to not question where exactly the chemist gets them from. A truly vegan diet will kill them., albeit slowly.
Rovinghawk said:
FredClogs said:
And yet vegans don't just drop dead... It's a mystery innit all this biology guff...
My understanding is that there are 2 amino acid humans need that cannot come from vegan sources.Vegans get these supplements from the chemist. They tend to not question where exactly the chemist gets them from. A truly vegan diet will kill them., albeit slowly.
LDN said:
Rovinghawk said:
FredClogs said:
And yet vegans don't just drop dead... It's a mystery innit all this biology guff...
My understanding is that there are 2 amino acid humans need that cannot come from vegan sources.Vegans get these supplements from the chemist. They tend to not question where exactly the chemist gets them from. A truly vegan diet will kill them., albeit slowly.
I'm not sure how this moves the discussion forward, but I'm lobbing it in here, like some sort of irrelevance grenade anyway.
Carry on.
Digga said:
LDN said:
Rovinghawk said:
FredClogs said:
And yet vegans don't just drop dead... It's a mystery innit all this biology guff...
My understanding is that there are 2 amino acid humans need that cannot come from vegan sources.Vegans get these supplements from the chemist. They tend to not question where exactly the chemist gets them from. A truly vegan diet will kill them., albeit slowly.
I'm not sure how this moves the discussion forward, but I'm lobbing it in here, like some sort of irrelevance grenade anyway.
turbobloke said:
Digga said:
LDN said:
Rovinghawk said:
FredClogs said:
And yet vegans don't just drop dead... It's a mystery innit all this biology guff...
My understanding is that there are 2 amino acid humans need that cannot come from vegan sources.Vegans get these supplements from the chemist. They tend to not question where exactly the chemist gets them from. A truly vegan diet will kill them., albeit slowly.
I'm not sure how this moves the discussion forward, but I'm lobbing it in here, like some sort of irrelevance grenade anyway.
a week and feeble Vegetarian, with canines, yesterday
I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
Hugo a Gogo said:
Well............http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/10...
I consider that to be a reputable source.
Alternatively we have this:
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/hb/hb-intervi...
In summary: not vegetarian.
did you read those links?
mystery source of mammal DNA in Gorilla poop, maybe from other creatures poking around in there
2nd link goes on about Chimps, we know they eat other monkeys (even other chimps) and it says Highland Gorilla only eat insects 'incidentally' if they get in the food
mystery source of mammal DNA in Gorilla poop, maybe from other creatures poking around in there
2nd link goes on about Chimps, we know they eat other monkeys (even other chimps) and it says Highland Gorilla only eat insects 'incidentally' if they get in the food
Hugo a Gogo said:
a week and feeble Vegetarian, with canines, yesterday
I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
Although they're colon fermenters and can breakdown cellulose, which humans cant, however they're still no where near as good at it as ruminants.I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
Hugo a Gogo said:
a week and feeble Vegetarian, with canines, yesterday
I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
Bingo. The meat eaters end up coming out with more rubbish than the vege's; bizarre! There's plenty of larger than life creatures that have somehow been sustained with no / or very little meat... it's a miracle. It'd be better for people to just own up and say; 'I enjoy it' as that's all people really need say...I'm not a veggie by the way, but there is some amount of balls being spouted here by anti-veggies, almost all primates have long canine teeth, longer than ours relatively, and almost all of them eat way less meat, relatively, than us (and thiers is raw of course)
Rovinghawk said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
mammal DNA in Gorilla poop, maybe from other creatures poking around in there
Maybe from digested mammals?Rovinghawk said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
2nd link goes on about Chimps, we know they eat other monkeys
Same genus, different species. If one can eat meat then so can the others.anyway, it's not what they could eat, it's what they must eat
the teeth were an argument that humans must eat meat, as was the idea that veggies are weak
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