Net migration to UK - new record high
Discussion
Will be more interesting to see the post-brexit vote figures.
Maybe lower due to 'in before the lock' peak, coupled with the UK economy being trashed, so lowering the draw factor.
Post actual-brexit (if it happens) will be equally interesting to see where the same/higher migration numbers come from (our new best friends doing the jobs that Brexit voters won't do)
Maybe lower due to 'in before the lock' peak, coupled with the UK economy being trashed, so lowering the draw factor.
Post actual-brexit (if it happens) will be equally interesting to see where the same/higher migration numbers come from (our new best friends doing the jobs that Brexit voters won't do)
blindswelledrat said:
caelite said:
you spend the best part of 2 decades creating a low quality labour market whilst allowing high quality jobs and industries to move to foreign shores.
Which hasn't happened.https://www.ft.com/content/6a8544ae-9d9e-11e4-8ea3...
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/more-...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/2-million-br...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blo...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/aug/30/...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-27...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bre...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10258081/...
Edited by caelite on Thursday 1st December 19:40
Jimboka said:
Will be more interesting to see the post-brexit vote figures.
Maybe lower due to 'in before the lock' peak, coupled with the UK economy being trashed, so lowering the draw factor.
Post actual-brexit (if it happens) will be equally interesting to see where the same/higher migration numbers come from (our new best friends doing the jobs that Brexit voters won't do)
Presumably these jobs were open to Remain voters too,no?Maybe lower due to 'in before the lock' peak, coupled with the UK economy being trashed, so lowering the draw factor.
Post actual-brexit (if it happens) will be equally interesting to see where the same/higher migration numbers come from (our new best friends doing the jobs that Brexit voters won't do)
BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. 
Dindoit said:
650k arrivals with 284k from EU, aka less than half.
The majority come from nations where we have controlled immigration. It's almost as if market forces have decided we need migrants and their low cost labour. Who would have thought it?
The welfare state means that the government has its finger firmly pressed on those market forces scales.The majority come from nations where we have controlled immigration. It's almost as if market forces have decided we need migrants and their low cost labour. Who would have thought it?
BIANCO said:
jjlynn27 said:
BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. 
t.BIANCO said:
jjlynn27 said:
BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. saabster14 said:
Today's Daily Mail front page shrieks "MIGRANT NUMBERS REACH NEW RECORDS." This is next to a picture of Andrew Sachs, who was, remember, a migrant. His family fled the Nazis in 1938. Who the Mail supported...
There is just a little bit of a difference between immigrants fleeing the nazis/Syrians fleeing the current conflict, and the EU federalist dream.Didn't know the Mail at the time supported the Nazis, but having visited a concentration camp in Germany, it was eye opening about how many well known companies today used slave labour- including some our most loved car brands today.
So if you want people to stop reading the Mail due to its past, you should start by selling that Porsche of yours
Edited by hyphen on Friday 2nd December 11:13
hyphen said:
saabster14 said:
Today's Daily Mail front page shrieks "MIGRANT NUMBERS REACH NEW RECORDS." This is next to a picture of Andrew Sachs, who was, remember, a migrant. His family fled the Nazis in 1938. Who the Mail supported...
There is just a little bit of a difference between immigrants fleeing the nazis/Syrians fleeing the current conflict, and the EU federalist dream.Didn't know the Mail at the time supported the Nazis, but having visited a concentration camp in Germany, it was eye opening about how many well known companies today used slave jewish labour- including some out most loved car brands today, BMW for example.
saabster14 said:
Today's Daily Mail front page shrieks "MIGRANT NUMBERS REACH NEW RECORDS." This is next to a picture of Andrew Sachs, who was, remember, a migrant. His family fled the Nazis in 1938. Who the Mail supported...
Would that be the same Mail that made no mention at all of the Jo Cox verdict until Page 30?I think it might be?
Please people, stop buying/reading this s
t.MarshPhantom said:
saabster14 said:
Today's Daily Mail front page shrieks "MIGRANT NUMBERS REACH NEW RECORDS." This is next to a picture of Andrew Sachs, who was, remember, a migrant. His family fled the Nazis in 1938. Who the Mail supported...
Would that be the same Mail that made no mention at all of the Jo Cox verdict until Page 30?I think it might be?
Please people, stop buying/reading this s
t.Dindoit said:
hyphen said:
Don't think you have addressed the point I made.
"Hello my name is Tharindu from Sri Lanka and I'm here for a job, I have 10 years working as a plumber and I am willing to work for the minimum wage on a zero hour contract as the wage in my country is 2p, I'm happy to sleep 5 to a room as the most import thing is for me to send money back to my family"
"Come on in. Secretary, please withdraw that ad for the apprentice plumbers we are advertising for"
Apologies I did miss your point. Not "how can market forces control immigration?" but "market forces isn't the right way to control immigration"."Hello my name is Tharindu from Sri Lanka and I'm here for a job, I have 10 years working as a plumber and I am willing to work for the minimum wage on a zero hour contract as the wage in my country is 2p, I'm happy to sleep 5 to a room as the most import thing is for me to send money back to my family"
"Come on in. Secretary, please withdraw that ad for the apprentice plumbers we are advertising for"
I disagree though broadly and with your particular example we (UK) desperately need trained plumbers. There is a huge shortage of plumbing apprentices but it's not because we're favouring foreigners but because, inexplicably, young people don't pursue a potentially lucrative career in plumbing. In London particularly they're forced to advertise abroad and far from paying minimum wage they pay overseas plumbers way over the normal rate. Same for construction.
There is an argument for hitting the reset button and saying British jobs for British workers. To have a 10yr national plan to train up the feckless to be able to do these engineering/construction jobs. I personally think that's a naive and unrealistic pipe dream.
I don't go for the 'British jobs for British workers' mantra some politicians have used as a soundbite, high quality people are always welcome. I do take issue with the general perception of those 'left behind' being feckless though- from my experience most are not the stereotypical feckless, they are people willing to do the work and need an opportunity, they aren't smart enough to figure things out opportunities by themselves but once trained will do a good honest job.
jjlynn27 said:
BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. MarshPhantom said:
Please people, stop buying/reading this st.
Does the Mail go too far at times? A clear yes. Has it done a tremendous job in bringing the 'issues the establishment refused to talk about' to light? Yes.t.Take the most recent example- public being told 'kids' would be arriving from Calais. It was the Daily Mail who revealed that this was a sham.
Europa1 said:
jjlynn27 said:
BIANCO said:
Composite Guru said:
Good job our road network and housing situation can cope with all this!!!
I did manchester to liverpool today, people in 1830, 186 years ago where doing it 45 faster than what I did it in today. So yeah our road network is top notch and is coping fantastically. Guybrush said:
I think he's saying the Mail supported Sachs' fleeing the Nazis. But he also suggests the Mail quoting the numbers of immigrants is somehow being against them, which is odd, but then again the left have always used the race card whenever numbers of immigrants are discussed, presumably so as to shut down further discussion.
I often read about this "race card" being "used" but I'm not sure what is meant by it - the expression is used frequently and in so many different contexts that it seems to have lost (if it ever had) any substantive meaning. It seems to be commonplace to state that this card shuts down debate on immigration. How? It is said so often as if it is a universal truth. The reality I see is that immigration and racism are both very frequently debated (certainly on PH!).
This isn't a faux naive observation. In our society it is generally accepted that being racist is some kind of 'bad thing' as racism isn't good. However, racism clearly does exist in both overt and subtle ways so the allegation can't always be wrong (or right). What is to stop someone who is being accused of racism defending and explaining their position? Equally, what is stopping someone who accepts and admits they are racist defending and explaining their position (within the law)? I just don't see the immigration OR racism debate being shut down in the way that many posters so categorically state.
B'stard Child said:
Deptford Draylons said:
650k people arrived, 176K had a job and 127K are looking for work.
What about the 347K??? They are just here for sts and giggles??We returned from the Middle East after 13 years. She jumped through the numerous, financial and time lengthy hoops to apply for a 2.5 year spouse visa to come and live with me. She holds an Indian passport. She paid the NHS surcharge.
She's not looking for work though as we are now financially independent. We're just spending within the economy, paying tax and costing the UK a big fat zero.
We'll go through all the hoops again for another 2.5 year visa and if the powers deem it, she'll then be allowed to apply for a UK passport. There is nothing easy about it, and after completing reems of paperwork, spending lots of money and waiting nervously for many months, the relief when the visa was granted was full on.
It looked at one point that it might be delayed and an MP friend of a friend said it takes ages as many applications are fraudulent and every single document has to be confirmed as authentic.
From what we can work out, you need to meet strict criteria if you're a non-EU immigrant. Nothing for EU. Also, look up the Surinder Singh ruling. Basically, you can go to another EU country with your non-EU partner, do the barest minimum to pretend to set up a life, then apply under EU rules (against UK rules) after only a few months bypassing the UK's requirements.
Roman Rhodes said:
I often read about this "race card" being "used" but I'm not sure what is meant by it...The reality I see is that immigration and racism are both very frequently debated (certainly on PH!).
... I just don't see the immigration OR racism debate being shut down in the way that many posters so categorically state.
BBC Trust report: "...the BBC had been "slow to reflect the weight of concern in the wider community" about issues around the topic and must do more to seek out opinions "which 'people like us' may find unpalatable".
Helen Boaden, the BBC's former news director,admitted the corporation held a "deep liberal bias" in its coverage of immigation when she took up the role in 2004.
Nick Robinson, the BBC's political editor: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/...
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