Unsustainable public sector pensions

[IroningMan]

The BBC tells me that the Telegraph is reporting that high-paid public sector employees are lobbying the Treasury to get themselves an exemption to the forthcoming changes in higher-rate pension tax relief.

Seems fair.

[sidicks]

IroningMan said:

The BBC tells me that the Telegraph is reporting that high-paid public sector employees are lobbying the Treasury to get themselves an exemption to the forthcoming changes in higher-rate pension tax relief.

Seems fair.

They already get a significant advantage over private sector workers due to the implicit commutation formula used for the lifetime limit etc

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

Further, certain people on here who work in the NHS get very exasperated when those outside try and comment on the issues!

Usually whilst trying to assert their opinions on finance!

[anonymous-user]

IroningMan said:

The BBC tells me that the Telegraph is reporting that high-paid public sector employees are lobbying the Treasury to get themselves an exemption to the forthcoming changes in higher-rate pension tax relief.

Seems fair.

Perhaps because the dim witted cow who has ruled HMRC to such poor effect has just been handsomely rewarded they feel that the government's got a soft spot for them at the moment.

[Rovinghawk]

sidicks said:

They already get a significant advantage over private sector workers due to the implicit commutation formula used for the lifetime limit etc

Would you please elaborate on that?

[sidicks]

Rovinghawk said:

Would you please elaborate on that?

Strictly speaking this favours DB schemes with inflation-linked benefits over DC schemes, rather than public sector over private, but I'm practice that's the same thing.

When assessing whether your DB pension is in excess of the lifetime allowance (£1m from April 2016), you use a multiplier of 20. In the real world, the true multiplier is over 30 (for an index-linked scheme) and hence a public sector worker with a £50k p.a. pension inflating at RPI is (just) within the lifetime cap, whereas a private sector would need to have a fund of circa £1.5m to fund the same pension but there would be an excess tax charge on £500k of the pot...

I think!

[Sheepshanks]

fblm said:

sidicks said:

Further, certain people on here who work in the NHS get very exasperated when those outside try and comment on the issues!

Usually whilst trying to assert their opinions on finance!

One massive advantage of being in a public sector pension scheme should be that you don't have to think about it. The Government keeps messing that up by meddling with the schemes.

[superlightr]

sidicks said:

and hence a public sector worker with a £50k p.a. pension inflating at RPI is (just) within the lifetime cap, whereas a private sector would need to have a fund of circa £1.5m to fund the same pension but there would be an excess tax charge on £500k of the pot...

I think!

So as self-employed bod I would need to pay in the equivalent of of £1.5million to funds myself a £50k pension.

How much does a public sector worker have to put in fund the same pension?

[sidicks]

superlightr said:

So as self-employed bod I would need to pay in the equivalent of of £1.5million to funds myself a £50k pension.

How much does a public sector worker have to put in fund the same pension?

Dependent on which public sector scheme, but around £300-£500k on average.

[London424]

superlightr said:

sidicks said:

and hence a public sector worker with a £50k p.a. pension inflating at RPI is (just) within the lifetime cap, whereas a private sector would need to have a fund of circa £1.5m to fund the same pension but there would be an excess tax charge on £500k of the pot...

I think!

So as self-employed bod I would need to pay in the equivalent of of £1.5million to funds myself a £50k pension.

How much does a public sector worker have to put in fund the same pension?

You don't want to know. It'll just piss you off.

[superlightr]

London424 said:

superlightr said:

sidicks said:

and hence a public sector worker with a £50k p.a. pension inflating at RPI is (just) within the lifetime cap, whereas a private sector would need to have a fund of circa £1.5m to fund the same pension but there would be an excess tax charge on £500k of the pot...

I think!

So as self-employed bod I would need to pay in the equivalent of of £1.5million to funds myself a £50k pension.

How much does a public sector worker have to put in fund the same pension?

You don't want to know. It'll just piss you off.

its ok I can take it. Love to know how much I have to pay to enable others to have more of a pension then I can afford. It makes me smile to be so generous.

[London424]

superlightr said:

London424 said:

superlightr said:

sidicks said:

and hence a public sector worker with a £50k p.a. pension inflating at RPI is (just) within the lifetime cap, whereas a private sector would need to have a fund of circa £1.5m to fund the same pension but there would be an excess tax charge on £500k of the pot...

I think!

So as self-employed bod I would need to pay in the equivalent of of £1.5million to funds myself a £50k pension.

How much does a public sector worker have to put in fund the same pension?

You don't want to know. It'll just piss you off.

its ok I can take it. Love to know how much I have to pay to enable others to have more of a pension then I can afford. It makes me smile to be so generous.

sidicks posted it a couple up

[mph1977]

sidicks said:

Dependent on which public sector scheme, but around £300-£500k on average.

employee contribution or employer + employee ?

especially as the question was asked for a self employed person ...

or are the wonderful sidicks moving goalposts in use again ...

[London424]

mph1977 said:

sidicks said:

Dependent on which public sector scheme, but around £300-£500k on average.

employee contribution or employer + employee ?

especially as the question was asked for a self employed person ...

or are the wonderful sidicks moving goalposts in use again ...

I'm not sure what you're getting at but pretty sure you've not understood.

[mph1977]

London424 said:

mph1977 said:

sidicks said:

Dependent on which public sector scheme, but around £300-£500k on average.

employee contribution or employer + employee ?

especially as the question was asked for a self employed person ...

or are the wonderful sidicks moving goalposts in use again ...

I'm not sure what you're getting at but pretty sure you've not understood.

some people when attempting to prove how unaffordable public sector pensions are have a horrid habit of comparing employee contributions in Public sector schemes with the whole contribution in other schemes or even the whole contribution and tax reliefs ... despite the fact the the pension scheme adminstrator for the schemes recieves a employer contribution and in the PAYG public secotr schemes, has , does and will continue to return a surplus to the exchequer year on year ...

[sidicks]

London424 said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at but pretty sure you've not understood.

It's the same issue he always misunderstands - he (apparently) doesn't understand that the taxpayer is the employer as far as the NHS is concerned.

Nothing to see here!!

Oh, he also doesn't understand what a 'surplus' is within a DB pension scheme. Expect that to come up too...

[Downward]

Sheepshanks said:

One massive advantage of being in a public sector pension scheme should be that you don't have to think about it. The Government keeps messing that up by meddling with the schemes.

I've no idea what my final pension will be so its a bit of a gamble.

[sidicks]

mph1977 said:

some people when attempting to prove how unaffordable public sector pensions are have a horrid habit of comparing employee contributions in Public sector schemes with the whole contribution in other schemes or even the whole contribution and tax reliefs ... despite the fact the the pension scheme adminstrator for the schemes recieves a employer contribution

As predicted! Still laughably ignorant - who do you think 'employer' is for the NHS scheme.

mph1977 said:

and in the PAYG public secotr schemes, has , does and will continue to return a surplus to the exchequer year on year ...

What was that quote someone posted above about wishing certain people would shut up and stop making comments about things they don't understand...'

[Downward]

Some crazy pensions for those at the top.

I notice a lot blame NHS staff but the reports say academia staff already get this benefit and are on a hell of a lot more than those top paid public sector staff.

[Rovinghawk]

mph1977 said:

some people when attempting to prove how unaffordable public sector pensions are have a horrid habit of comparing employee contributions in Public sector schemes with the whole contribution in other schemes or
even the whole contribution and tax reliefs ...

The money comes from two sources- the beneficiary & (ultimately) the taxpayer. There is no other source of money.

mph1977 said:

despite the fact the the pension scheme adminstrator for the schemes recieves a employer contribution and in the PAYG public secotr schemes, has , does and will continue to return a surplus to the exchequer year on year ...

So the NHS pension scheme generates more money than it costs? This is fantasy accounting that even Enron at its worst wouldn't suggest.