Unsustainable public sector pensions
Discussion
king wept.For obvious reasons I can not give exact details but maybe I can help a bit:
My OH retired at just about the highest level a nurse could get to and still keep her registration and I doubt there are many, if any, that are / were higher.
She had 38 yrs contributions but did have a few years out (Kids & Saudi) however I believe she may have made this up along the way.
She does not get 30K as mentioned. Her Ex took some of her pension (sore point) but all in all I can see how it would be possible to achieve £30k in very, very, rare instances.
I should perhaps mention she was on the older form of NHS pension, had the choice to change but decided newer pension may not have been as beneficial.
My OH retired at just about the highest level a nurse could get to and still keep her registration and I doubt there are many, if any, that are / were higher.
She had 38 yrs contributions but did have a few years out (Kids & Saudi) however I believe she may have made this up along the way.
She does not get 30K as mentioned. Her Ex took some of her pension (sore point) but all in all I can see how it would be possible to achieve £30k in very, very, rare instances.
I should perhaps mention she was on the older form of NHS pension, had the choice to change but decided newer pension may not have been as beneficial.
Sheepshanks said:
sidicks said:
How much were her contributions...
Over how many years were her contributions made...
Does it matter? The fact is her pension is £250/mth. It's hardly the gold-plated, feather-bedded public sector retirement that many assume.Over how many years were her contributions made...
sidicks said:
superlightr said:
so if she/eor paid in £10 a month for 15 years then its a fekking amazing gold plated with flashing lights pension. Can you not see that?
She's paid less than that, apparently!alfie2244 said:
For obvious reasons I can not give exact details but maybe I can help a bit:
My OH retired at just about the highest level a nurse could get to and still keep her registration and I doubt there are many, if any, that are / were higher.
She had 38 yrs contributions but did have a few years out (Kids & Saudi) however I believe she may have made this up along the way.
She does not get 30K as mentioned. Her Ex took some of her pension (sore point) but all in all I can see how it would be possible to achieve £30k in very, very, rare instances.
I should perhaps mention she was on the older form of NHS pension, had the choice to change but decided newer pension may not have been as beneficial.
toget a 30 k pension as a Nurse you'd have to be on band 8c or above at retirement - this is Assistant Director of Nursing level in most trusts - a role which there are a literal handful of in the organisation.My OH retired at just about the highest level a nurse could get to and still keep her registration and I doubt there are many, if any, that are / were higher.
She had 38 yrs contributions but did have a few years out (Kids & Saudi) however I believe she may have made this up along the way.
She does not get 30K as mentioned. Her Ex took some of her pension (sore point) but all in all I can see how it would be possible to achieve £30k in very, very, rare instances.
I should perhaps mention she was on the older form of NHS pension, had the choice to change but decided newer pension may not have been as beneficial.
you would be looking at being on the one of the final salary parts of the scheme for all contriubutions
you would be looking at having 40 ish years of contributions - something which very few Nurses achieve due to career breaks ( it being a profession which is 85 % percent female) especially now the majority of nurses who have qualified in the past 20 years could onloy pay in on registration rather than on entry to pre-reg training
mph1977 said:
toget a 30 k pension as a Nurse you'd have to be on band 8c or above at retirement - this is Assistant Director of Nursing level in most trusts - a role which there are a literal handful of in the organisation.
you would be looking at being on the one of the final salary parts of the scheme for all contriubutions
you would be looking at having 40 ish years of contributions - something which very few Nurses achieve due to career breaks ( it being a profession which is 85 % percent female) especially now the majority of nurses who have qualified in the past 20 years could onloy pay in on registration rather than on entry to pre-reg training
All of which may be true, and despite your claims to the contrary (which you've still refused to back up) I've not said otherwise. However you miss the fundamental point that it is entirely irrelevant to the point being discussed!you would be looking at being on the one of the final salary parts of the scheme for all contriubutions
you would be looking at having 40 ish years of contributions - something which very few Nurses achieve due to career breaks ( it being a profession which is 85 % percent female) especially now the majority of nurses who have qualified in the past 20 years could onloy pay in on registration rather than on entry to pre-reg training
Again.
Sheepshanks said:
sidicks said:
How much were her contributions...
Over how many years were her contributions made...
Does it matter? The fact is her pension is £250/mth. It's hardly the gold-plated, feather-bedded public sector retirement that many assume.Over how many years were her contributions made...
250 a month, index linked, with spouse benefit I presume. What's that worth about 100k? For zero contribution?
sidicks said:
mph1977 said:
toget a 30 k pension as a Nurse you'd have to be on band 8c or above at retirement - this is Assistant Director of Nursing level in most trusts - a role which there are a literal handful of in the organisation.
you would be looking at being on the one of the final salary parts of the scheme for all contriubutions
you would be looking at having 40 ish years of contributions - something which very few Nurses achieve due to career breaks ( it being a profession which is 85 % percent female) especially now the majority of nurses who have qualified in the past 20 years could onloy pay in on registration rather than on entry to pre-reg training
All of which may be true, and despite your claims to the contrary (which you've still refused to back up) I've not said otherwise. However you miss the fundamental point that it is entirely irrelevant to the point being discussed!you would be looking at being on the one of the final salary parts of the scheme for all contriubutions
you would be looking at having 40 ish years of contributions - something which very few Nurses achieve due to career breaks ( it being a profession which is 85 % percent female) especially now the majority of nurses who have qualified in the past 20 years could onloy pay in on registration rather than on entry to pre-reg training
Again.
when in reality the number of new pensioners from Nursing getting a 30 k pension is a handful each year
mph1977 said:
are you denying in your previous post you presented a 30 k pension for a nurse as not being exceptional ?
Yes. You've made 3 similar claims yet are still to back up any of them...mph1977 said:
when in reality the number of new pensioners from Nursing getting a 30 k pension is a handful each year
It doesn't matter, as it's the size of this benefit relative to the size of the contribution that is important. As you'd understand if you read a few more economics ' pensions text books and a few less fairy stories...Just a quick visit back, let's ignore the issue of only band 8c today, note, today, the original premise in the article was as follows.
"Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
"Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
FiF said:
Just a quick visit back, let's ignore the issue of only band 8c today, note, today, the original premise in the article was as follows.
"Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
What will £45.5 / 30.7K actually buy in 40 yrs time? I was once told that, historically money halved in value every 7 yrs."Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
You could buy a detached house for around £17k in the 70's now £300ish I would guess.
Edited by alfie2244 on Wednesday 30th March 19:22
superlightr said:
sidicks said:
superlightr said:
so if she/eor paid in £10 a month for 15 years then its a fekking amazing gold plated with flashing lights pension. Can you not see that?
She's paid less than that, apparently!So it seems fair that you should continue to keep her - is she supposed to live on £250/mth?
FiF said:
"Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
The confusing bit is the use of the phrase, "in today's money", the figures quoted assume a 4% pay rise every year for 40 years, but that's not possible unless inflationary rises are included is it? If you include inflation, then the final salary and resulting pension aren't in today's money at all. When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
On the same pay band, ignoring inflation, the nurse would have hit the maximum salary for the band after maybe as little as 5-8 years? So there wouldn't be any 4% after that, just inflation being added to the max for the band.
£30k in 40 years time is likely to be worth about what you'd expect the pension to be, around the £10k mark perhaps in today's money, maybe less.
alfie2244 said:
FiF said:
Just a quick visit back, let's ignore the issue of only band 8c today, note, today, the original premise in the article was as follows.
"Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
What will £45.5 / 30.7K actually buy in 40 yrs time? I was once told that, historically money halved in value every 7 yrs."Using the NHS pension scheme from 2015 as an example, a fully qualified nurse aged 25, earning £21,692 and joining the pension scheme today, will typically contribute 7.1pc of salary each year to fund their retirement. If they work for 40 years, stay in the same band of earnings throughout and attain 4pc annual increases in pay, they could retire on an annual salary of £45,500 in today’s money.
When they stop working, they will have amassed a pension worth £30,700 a year in today’s money, equating to more than two thirds of their final salary. "
So in summary, band 8 only has sod all to do with this, it's bottom of band 5 today, and still band 5, but in 40 years time, with 4% year on year increases.
And it still doesn't alter the basics that regardless of when, now, future, band this, band that, the mechanics and relativities are still the same based on contributions, years of contributions etc etc.
You could buy a detached house for around £17k in the 70's now £300ish I would guess.
I think the 7yr thing is house prices. Maybe there are periods where it's been 7yrs with money but you've got to go back about 25yrs to double today's value.
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