Amputee loses Motability car

[Butter Face]

eybic said:

A lot of people seem to think that unless someone is in a chair like Mr Hawkins then they aren't "disabled"

Exactly this.

Someone I know used the amazing phrase 'they don't look disabled'

[stuartmmcfc]

Typical PH Motability thread where the ill informed and biased think their ipinion must be right

[RYH64E]

Butter Face said:

RYH64E said:

Butter Face said:

Because the child is disabled, they aren't just getting a free car.

The government has decided the child qualifies for DLA, that's the way it is, the family have decided that instead of receiving the money directly (and you know they could spend it on anything, drugs, alcohol, a mix of both) it gets paid directly to Motability who provide them with a car.

The money indirectly does back to the government in the form of VAT, servicing, tyres, windscreens etc etc.

Most DLA awards are for a limited time and there's no guarantee that the child will continue to receive the money.

The child is perfectly able to walk, run, talk and do all the things other three year olds do, there are no mobility problems, the only thing he doesn't do is play with other children. As well as a free (they're not paying for it so it's free as far as I'm concerned) car for mum this means the family need a bigger (council) house and he needs a room of his own in the garden, and for some unfathomable reason their family bathroom needs to be converted to a wet room. Even in this time of supposed austerity some budgets appear to be flush with cash.

Well you know what to do. If you feel someone is getting government handouts that they don't deserve, shop them.

Of course they've gone through the correct channels already to get what they've got so in the eyes of the government they're probably doing no wrong.

Here you go, here's the link. https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

Bet you don't care that much to actually report it.

I'm not suggesting that it's fraudulent, I am suggesting that it's a totally ridiculous scheme that should be scrapped.

[alfie2244]

Wonder what a car salesman thinks of the bwillion pound tax gap?

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap2...

[Butter Face]

alfie2244 said:

Wonder what a car salesman thinks of the bwillion pound tax gap?

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap2...

What's that got to with motabilty cars?


I pay my taxes.

[Butter Face]

RYH64E said:

Butter Face said:

RYH64E said:

Butter Face said:

Because the child is disabled, they aren't just getting a free car.

The government has decided the child qualifies for DLA, that's the way it is, the family have decided that instead of receiving the money directly (and you know they could spend it on anything, drugs, alcohol, a mix of both) it gets paid directly to Motability who provide them with a car.

The money indirectly does back to the government in the form of VAT, servicing, tyres, windscreens etc etc.

Most DLA awards are for a limited time and there's no guarantee that the child will continue to receive the money.

The child is perfectly able to walk, run, talk and do all the things other three year olds do, there are no mobility problems, the only thing he doesn't do is play with other children. As well as a free (they're not paying for it so it's free as far as I'm concerned) car for mum this means the family need a bigger (council) house and he needs a room of his own in the garden, and for some unfathomable reason their family bathroom needs to be converted to a wet room. Even in this time of supposed austerity some budgets appear to be flush with cash.

Well you know what to do. If you feel someone is getting government handouts that they don't deserve, shop them.

Of course they've gone through the correct channels already to get what they've got so in the eyes of the government they're probably doing no wrong.

Here you go, here's the link. https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

Bet you don't care that much to actually report it.

I'm not suggesting that it's fraudulent, I am suggesting that it's a totally ridiculous scheme that should be scrapped.

What is? The DWP? PIP? Higher rate mobility components to help people get around? The Motability Scheme?

What, exactly do you think is a 'ridiculous scheme' that should be scrapped?

Motability costs no more to the taxpayer than a person who receives the benefit and chooses not to have a car, do you understand that?

[oldnbold]

alfie2244 said:

Is there any kind of league table showing where Motability abusers sit in relation to others that either take out or don't pay into the coffers as much as they should?

Pure guesswork but I would think Motability is not top of the table.

There's another misconception, the higher rate of mobility allowance or what ever it's now being called, is not means tested, there are a reasonable percentage of claimants who are still paying far more tax into the pot than they are receiving back out. Disability does not only affect the poor.

You may remember a few years ago there was a big splash in the press about motability users being leased top end Audi's and BMW's etc. What wasn't publisised at the time was that in order to lease one of these £50-£60k cars the user was actually putting in £7k - £9k of there own cash as the advance payment. As a result you can now only lease lower end prestige cars with an advance payment (deposit) of about £3k. I suspect the people who previously had the high end cars now just pocket the cash (about £250 p/m) and sort out their own cars.

[Charlie1986]

oldnbold said:

There's another misconception, the higher rate of mobility allowance or what ever it's now being called, is not means tested, there are a reasonable percentage of claimants who are still paying far more tax into the pot than they are receiving back out. Disability does not only affect the poor.

You may remember a few years ago there was a big splash in the press about motability users being leased top end Audi's and BMW's etc. What wasn't publisised at the time was that in order to lease one of these £50-£60k cars the user was actually putting in £7k - £9k of there own cash as the advance payment. As a result you can now only lease lower end prestige cars with an advance payment (deposit) of about £3k. I suspect the people who previously had the high end cars now just pocket the cash (about £250 p/m) and sort out their own cars.

Volvo-BMW-Audi if you want a nice spec your paying a AP of 3k and extras you pay your self

[stuartmmcfc]

I had to pay AP of 2k on muy Huyundai

[Triumph Man]

Looking at the photograph, it looks like her right leg is the false one, so presumably a car would be adapted to have the throttle flipped over to the left side of the brake? I'm not an amputee so can't comment if it's easy enough to operate the throttle with an artificial leg?

For me though the main issue is that, as people have said, motability is abused by salad dodgers and those who get out of breath from talking into the drive thru mic (through being a fat fk rather than disabled) and yet here is a poor girl who could probably do with the car.

[Quinny]

Triumph Man said:

Looking at the photograph, it looks like her right leg is the false one, so presumably a car would be adapted to have the throttle flipped over to the left side of the brake? I'm not an amputee so can't comment if it's easy enough to operate the throttle with an artificial leg?

I have a friend (contracted Polio as a child).... His right leg is next to useless, and he drives a normal unmodified automatic using his good left leg on the throttle and brake.. Pedals are in the normal position, he just tucks his useless leg out of the way..

[Triumph Man]

Quinny said:

Triumph Man said:

Looking at the photograph, it looks like her right leg is the false one, so presumably a car would be adapted to have the throttle flipped over to the left side of the brake? I'm not an amputee so can't comment if it's easy enough to operate the throttle with an artificial leg?

I have a friend (contracted Polio as a child).... His right leg is next to useless, and he drives a normal unmodified automatic using his good left leg on the throttle and brake.. Pedals are in the normal position, he just tucks his useless leg out of the way..

Fair play to him, I tried using my left leg on the throttle and brake once (just because) and it was quite awkward. My great uncle had polio which affected his left arm, and he had to have an auto. Despite this, he was still a much faster driver than my Grandpa (his brother)

[oldnbold]

Charlie1986 said:

Volvo-BMW-Audi if you want a nice spec your paying a AP of 3k and extras you pay your self

Agreed you can still get a decent spec, but BMW you are limited to the 3 series or below and with Audi the A3 and below, you can get some of the bigger Volvo's though.

[Charlie1986]

oldnbold said:

Agreed you can still get a decent spec, but BMW you are limited to the 3 series or below and with Audi the A3 and below, you can get some of the bigger Volvo's though.

Q3 sline plus £2899
XC60 £2899
XC70 2899

Volvos are offering R design and Se Lux nav models

[mph1977]

Janluke said:

I don't know enough about this particular case to form a firm opinion but I've been an amputee for over 20 years so I'll add something.

Visually an amputation can be very striking but in lots of cases its just not that disabling. Modern limbs work very well and the tech is improving all the time. My personal mobility is better now than it was 20 years ago. I've never qualified for DLA or the motobility section of it as I pass all the tests. The reason I don't qualify for these benefits is the NHS provide me with very expensive limbs free of charge. These limbs enable me to live a full life.

I'm not saying there arnt amputees who get and deserve motobility cars and I'm sure the system has been abused for years but each case should be decided on merit

That fits with the revision of the criteria with the move to PIP , as the unable to walk criteria for the top rate of mobility component is being strictly applied and is a little more restrictive than the rules under DLA if they were applied properly ...

There is also the issues related to correct completion of the documentation and giving the appropriate answers in the face to face assessment if / when called for one.

[mph1977]

RYH64E said:

The child is perfectly able to walk, run, talk and do all the things other three year olds do, there are no mobility problems, the only thing he doesn't do is play with other children. As well as a free (they're not paying for it so it's free as far as I'm concerned) car for mum this means the family need a bigger (council) house and he needs a room of his own in the garden, and for some unfathomable reason their family bathroom needs to be converted to a wet room. Even in this time of supposed austerity some budgets appear to be flush with cash.

If I were you i'd go and look at the criteria for HR mobility and especially the behavioural one ...

[mph1977]

alfie2244 said:

Is there any kind of league table showing where Motability abusers sit in relation to others that either take out or don't pay into the coffers as much as they should?

Pure guesswork but I would think Motability is not top of the table.

a lot ofthe moaning aobut Motability is based in utter ignorance with a bit of green-eyed envy thrown in

1. the cars are not 'free' - they cost 200 + gbp / month and the advanced payment (if any)
2. the car does not have to carry the claimant at all times ( or at least half the time ) - this is people gettign confused with the blue badge rules
3. there is alot of misunderstanding on the criteria that qualifies people for HR mobility component.

[RYH64E]

mph1977 said:

If I were you i'd go and look at the criteria for HR mobility and especially the behavioural one ...

Why would I want to do that? Might I also qualify for a free car?

[oldnbold]

Charlie1986 said:

oldnbold said:

Agreed you can still get a decent spec, but BMW you are limited to the 3 series or below and with Audi the A3 and below, you can get some of the bigger Volvo's though.

Q3 sline plus £2899
XC60 £2899
XC70 2899

Volvos are offering R design and Se Lux nav models

I'm ex forces also Charlie, I get a war pension and the war pensioners motability suppliment added to my pension. My point was that a few years ago you used to be able to get 5 series BMW, A4, A6, Jag and Lexus if I remember correctly. But after a big fuss in the press the larger, higher end cars were removed from the scheme. I realise that Volvo still offer fairly large cars.

I've just read the thread you linked to earlier, I have never had to deal with the DWP as I was invalided out 12 years ago so my dealings were only with the veterans agency. My injuries are not battle injuries like yours but were caused by my service. I was RAF and as you know we prefer to "check in" rather "dig in" like you guys.

I know what you mean about feeling a fraud, I get a blue badge also but use it with restraint, for instance I park in the furthest away disabled bay that I can at the supermarket so that others who use a chair or sticks can use the nearer ones. I still feel at times that people are stairing when they see me get out of the car, even though I'm mid 50's and walk with a limp. I even got challenged once, but after I asked what their medical qualifications were and then explained that I am service veteran they shut up pretty quick and were fairly embarassed.

[alfie2244]

mph1977 said:

alfie2244 said:

Is there any kind of league table showing where Motability abusers sit in relation to others that either take out or don't pay into the coffers as much as they should?

Pure guesswork but I would think Motability is not top of the table.

a lot ofthe moaning aobut Motability is based in utter ignorance with a bit of green-eyed envy thrown in

1. the cars are not 'free' - they cost 200 + gbp / month and the advanced payment (if any)
2. the car does not have to carry the claimant at all times ( or at least half the time ) - this is people gettign confused with the blue badge rules
3. there is alot of misunderstanding on the criteria that qualifies people for HR mobility component.

I am not sure whether the (car salesman's) inference that 40% of Motability were not "merited" related only to those that chose to take the car in lieu of the money or pertained to "all" disabled people that qualify for the HR mobility component (or whatever it is called now).

Given it has been posted. IIRC, that 200k cars are Motability then by my rough calculation that is 80k cars and a hell of a lot of disabled people if he means all claimants whether they take the money or the car ( unable to find actual figures).

ps... do car salesman get commission etc for selling Motability?

eta I got it wrong sorry........60% not 40%.

Edited by alfie2244 on Monday 30th November 14:59