Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
Bluebarge said:
Rovinghawk said:
if you are referring to the Commission, the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament. They do not hand down "orders" they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
To whom are they accountable?Really, really gone now
ATG said:
Scuffers said:
don4l said:
We are far more important to Europe than Europe is to the UK.
why is it that the Pro-EU'ers simply cannot see this?beyond numbers, politics, etc. this is the stand out point that we need to start from.
ks?You are not likely to convince anyone with hysterical nonsense.
Here are some facts.
Last year (2014) 44.5% of our exports went to the EU. 55.5% went to the rest of the world. On that basis, the rest of the world is more important to us.
In 2014, the UK had a trade deficit of £61.6Bn with the rest of the EU, up from £11.2Bn in 1999. This tells me that we are more important to them. We are also becoming more important with each passing year.
The problem is getting worse because the UK economy is growing much faster than the rest of Europe. That means that we are buying more stuff, whic leads to an increase in imports. The rest of Europe are not buying more stuff. So our exports to Europe are not growing by as much as our imports.
Please explain which bits of the above are b
ks.Scuffers said:
The EU commission is nothing like the civil service, they define policy, direction, put up legislation, etc etc, they are the executive in the same way our cabinet is the executive of the UK, the difference being we vote for the party/cabinet/MP's, the commissioners are appointed.
I'm personally on the fence, but have been reading Bluebarge's posts with interest. Bluebarge said:"the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states"
= So our democratically elected government, along with others, appoint commissioners to represent us
"and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament."
= which are then reviewed by a parliament to which we elect members (MEPs) and are represented
"they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
= And any legislation the commission propose is voted on by MEPs who we have elected.
I'm not feeling the undemocratic vibe here tbh.
Bluebarge said:
Damn. Couldn't resist.
It's bks for the reasons stated above - only 10% of the rest of the EU's trade is with us, plus if you want to join the EEA you have to PAY for the privilege in hard cash - we are not likely to end up contributing much less in the EEA than in the EU.
Plus the City could decamp to the Eurozone tomorrow and, as other posters have pointed out, probably would. You can't have an international market-place without free movement of people and capital, and Frankfurt has been eyeing the City's position for years - this would be its chance.
As to state's contributions to the EU Budget, they are pretty small beer in the scheme of things and the hit would have to be shared out - they'd manage fine, particularly once they've trousered our EEA joining fee and annual subscription.
Anyway, really am gone now. Carry on wibbling
that the best you have?It's b
ks for the reasons stated above - only 10% of the rest of the EU's trade is with us, plus if you want to join the EEA you have to PAY for the privilege in hard cash - we are not likely to end up contributing much less in the EEA than in the EU.Plus the City could decamp to the Eurozone tomorrow and, as other posters have pointed out, probably would. You can't have an international market-place without free movement of people and capital, and Frankfurt has been eyeing the City's position for years - this would be its chance.
As to state's contributions to the EU Budget, they are pretty small beer in the scheme of things and the hit would have to be shared out - they'd manage fine, particularly once they've trousered our EEA joining fee and annual subscription.
Anyway, really am gone now. Carry on wibbling
so, one country, of 28 accounts for 10% of all trade in the EU? (assuming that's accurate)
I would suggest that makes us somewhat in the top end of importance economically?
Not forgetting that less than 50% of UK trade is with the rest of the EU.
As for the rest of it, yea, right.
you might want to consider just how much money we spend just to be in this club?
Mario149 said:
I'm personally on the fence, but have been reading Bluebarge's posts with interest. Bluebarge said:
"the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states"
= So our democratically elected government, along with others, appoint commissioners to represent us
"and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament."
= which are then reviewed by a parliament to which we elect members (MEPs) and are represented
"they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
= And any legislation the commission propose is voted on by MEPs who we have elected.
I'm not feeling the undemocratic vibe here tbh.
How many layers of bureaucracy, self-interest and horse trading do you want. If you want something addressed do you really want to lobby your MP, who then lobbies the government, who then lobbies the Commissioner, who then lobbies the Commission, who then lobbies the EU Parliament...for it to be vetoed by the Romanians?"the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states"
= So our democratically elected government, along with others, appoint commissioners to represent us
"and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament."
= which are then reviewed by a parliament to which we elect members (MEPs) and are represented
"they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
= And any legislation the commission propose is voted on by MEPs who we have elected.
I'm not feeling the undemocratic vibe here tbh.
In simple terms ask yourself if your local council is better placed to decide where and how to spend your council tax rather than a local council at the other end of the country. See how many potholes get fixed then.
'No UK trade benefit from EU membership - Civitas report'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27284489
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27284489
CaptainSlow said:
Mario149 said:
I'm personally on the fence, but have been reading Bluebarge's posts with interest. Bluebarge said:
"the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states"
= So our democratically elected government, along with others, appoint commissioners to represent us
"and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament."
= which are then reviewed by a parliament to which we elect members (MEPs) and are represented
"they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
= And any legislation the commission propose is voted on by MEPs who we have elected.
I'm not feeling the undemocratic vibe here tbh.
How many layers of bureaucracy, self-interest and horse trading do you want. If you want something addressed do you really want to lobby your MP, who then lobbies the government, who then lobbies the Commissioner, who then lobbies the Commission, who then lobbies the EU Parliament...for it to be vetoed by the Romanians?"the Commissioners are nominated by individual member states, chosen by the constituent EU member states"
= So our democratically elected government, along with others, appoint commissioners to represent us
"and their appointments are reviewed by the EU Parliament."
= which are then reviewed by a parliament to which we elect members (MEPs) and are represented
"they propose legislation which is reviewed and voted on by EU member governments and the EU Parliament.
= And any legislation the commission propose is voted on by MEPs who we have elected.
I'm not feeling the undemocratic vibe here tbh.
In simple terms ask yourself if your local council is better placed to decide where and how to spend your council tax rather than a local council at the other end of the country. See how many potholes get fixed then.
The main negative I see is that my views are diluted, not that I'm disenfranchised
Mario149 said:
But as I understand it, I can lobby my MEP directly (MP equiv), who will lobby the Commissioners (cabinet equiv), who then put it to the European Parliament (Westminster equiv) where all MEPs vote. I'm not really seeing any extra layers here. I do see that other countries have input from Commissioner level onwards which I may not like, but that's not a layer.
Well if that's not accountability for their actions then I don't know what is.Mrr T said:
Any number is a guess......
1- Investment Management - ........I would expect.......
2, EU Corporate Sales - ...... I would guess......
A few pages back you said you have 'seen' estimates of the job losses to be between 20 and 50k. Is what you have seen online? Link?1- Investment Management - ........I would expect.......
2, EU Corporate Sales - ...... I would guess......
Whilst I guess and expect you to know more about finance than myself, guessing and expecting is not enough to convince me that UK financial services will suffer outside of EU.
Einion Yrth said:
MarshPhantom said:
The country is currently being run by a load of ex-Etonians, people whose parents wealth has bought them power. I think I prefer to be told what to do by the EU, frankly.
And the qualities that make the upper echelons of the EU more suited to govern us are?steveT350C said:
Mrr T said:
Any number is a guess......
1- Investment Management - ........I would expect.......
2, EU Corporate Sales - ...... I would guess......
A few pages back you said you have 'seen' estimates of the job losses to be between 20 and 50k. Is what you have seen online? Link?1- Investment Management - ........I would expect.......
2, EU Corporate Sales - ...... I would guess......
Whilst I guess and expect you to know more about finance than myself, guessing and expecting is not enough to convince me that UK financial services will suffer outside of EU.
What is clear is that while the "3m jobs depend on the EU" is clearly rubbish. The fact is leaving the EU without remaining in the EEA or some form of agreement with the EU on financial services. Would result in a substantial number of UK financial services jobs moving to the EU. Since these tend to be higher paying jobs this will clearly have a negative effect on the UK economy. For this reason I consider Flexcit the only practical EU exit strategy.
otolith said:
MarshPhantom said:
It's more meritocratic than the country being run by those with most expensive education.
I'm not really up on the social privilege of the European political elite, is it different to ours?MarshPhantom said:
Me either, I can't believe many other countries are run by a bunch of school friends.
They're just as friendly when on the EU gravy train. It seems that if you're incompetent at national level you get pushed into a nice European job. Who was that unelectable Welsh chap?MarshPhantom said:
otolith said:
MarshPhantom said:
It's more meritocratic than the country being run by those with most expensive education.
I'm not really up on the social privilege of the European political elite, is it different to ours?See http://www.economist.com/node/21549976
don4l said:
If you think that I am wrong, then why don't you do a little research and give us some facts.
You are not likely to convince anyone with hysterical nonsense.
Here are some facts.
Last year (2014) 44.5% of our exports went to the EU. 55.5% went to the rest of the world. On that basis, the rest of the world is more important to us.
In 2014, the UK had a trade deficit of £61.6Bn with the rest of the EU, up from £11.2Bn in 1999. This tells me that we are more important to them. We are also becoming more important with each passing year.
The problem is getting worse because the UK economy is growing much faster than the rest of Europe. That means that we are buying more stuff, whic leads to an increase in imports. The rest of Europe are not buying more stuff. So our exports to Europe are not growing by as much as our imports.
Please explain which bits of the above are bks.
Anyway answered above by Bluebarge and The Economist article I linked to earlier.You are not likely to convince anyone with hysterical nonsense.
Here are some facts.
Last year (2014) 44.5% of our exports went to the EU. 55.5% went to the rest of the world. On that basis, the rest of the world is more important to us.
In 2014, the UK had a trade deficit of £61.6Bn with the rest of the EU, up from £11.2Bn in 1999. This tells me that we are more important to them. We are also becoming more important with each passing year.
The problem is getting worse because the UK economy is growing much faster than the rest of Europe. That means that we are buying more stuff, whic leads to an increase in imports. The rest of Europe are not buying more stuff. So our exports to Europe are not growing by as much as our imports.
Please explain which bits of the above are b
ks.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff