Brexit

[Alex]

Scuffers said:

out of interest, what do you see as the positive economic outcome from staying in?

Er, I was trying to be non-partisan. Nope, can't think of one.

[AJS-]

Alex said:

There are economic arguments for both options.

The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.

Absolutely this.

There are endless economic arguments for and against and they're all based on unknowns and unknowables.

The only thing that really counts here is democratic self government.

[rovermorris999]

ClaphamGT3 said:

an 'in' vote would pave the way to closer political union with the EU

Oddly, that's my main reason for getting out.

[Axionknight]

rovermorris999 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

an 'in' vote would pave the way to closer political union with the EU

Oddly, that's my main reason for getting out.

Same here, without a doubt.

[Nick Grant]

Stay in. Exit is a move away from world peace

[anonymous-user]

12/18 months ago I would have voted to exit, on the grounds of our economy and because of threatened closer union.

Now, after what has happened since there isn't a cat in hells chance that I would not vote for exit. The sooner the better.

I sincerely hope that we do get at least close to exit and the effect, at least, is to lead to massive change and roll back of what the EU has become.

[The Wookie]

AJS- said:

Alex said:

There are economic arguments for both options.

The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.

Absolutely this.

There are endless economic arguments for and against and they're all based on unknowns and unknowables.

The only thing that really counts here is democratic self government.

This is pretty much my thinking too, carrying on with the current path might be the lower risk thing to do, but I don't think I could vote with a clear conscience for an unaccountable technocratic government.

[plasticpig]

My vote is to stay in. I have seen nothing to convince me that we would be overall better off outside the EU. Not really bothered about the more democratic control argument as unless we moved to a direct democratic model (like Switzerland) then I don't see much changing in terms of individual representation.

[CaptainSlow]

plasticpig said:

My vote is to stay in. I have seen nothing to convince me that we would be overall better off outside the EU. Not really bothered about the more democratic control argument as unless we moved to a direct democratic model (like Switzerland) then I don't see much changing in terms of individual representation.

This is why apathy will be the end of us all.

[gareth_r]

We were sold a common market (and I do mean "we"... sorry, it's partially my fault ), and we ended up in a dictatorship run by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats.

Leave.

[dudleybloke]

gareth_r said:

We were sold a common market (and I do mean "we"... sorry, it's partially my fault ), and we ended up in a dictatorship run by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats.

Leave.

This.
Its a disgrace that we have given away our Democratic rights to foreigners.

[XCP]

I don't think I have any democratic rights aside from voting for an MP once every 5 years. What else is there?

[wolves_wanderer]

Happy to be convinced either way as I am completely on the fence. I don't particularly believe claims that we would be signing free trade deals with all and sundry in the first week after exit but neither do I believe that we are doomed if we exit.

[Scuffers]

wolves_wanderer said:

Happy to be convinced either way as I am completely on the fence. I don't particularly believe claims that we would be signing free trade deals with all and sundry in the first week after exit but neither do I believe that we are doomed if we exit.

there is a view that running with no trade deal could actually be the better outcome....

[Moominho]

Alex said:

There are economic arguments for both options.

The real reasons we should leave are for sovereignty, independence and democracy. The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. That's why we should leave whether we will be better off or not.

So for me, those reasons don't bother me. It's not a lack of patriotism, or apathy. I just don't feel that our independence etc is affected by being in the EU. It's the economic argument that will steer me.

[Rovinghawk]

I believe we pay lots of money in & get lots of rules & regulations out. It reminds me of HMRC, but without the friendly, cuddly aspect.

[wolves_wanderer]

Scuffers said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Happy to be convinced either way as I am completely on the fence. I don't particularly believe claims that we would be signing free trade deals with all and sundry in the first week after exit but neither do I believe that we are doomed if we exit.

there is a view that running with no trade deal could actually be the better outcome....

Yep. As I say, I'm entirely open to persuasion either way. Will be interesting to hear the arguments on both sides.

[Moominho]

KrissKross said:

The day we leave the EU we will be at least 8% better off.

Edited by KrissKross on Monday 30th November 13:06

I also find this unlikely. As I said, I am not particularly invested in either outcome, I'm probably slightly on the remain in the EU side at the moment. But it seems the Brexit side are a lot more pushy about the whole thing. Some anyway, not all. It's a bit like the Scottish Independence referendum where anyone wanting to stay in the UK was branded a traitor and someone who doesn't love their country.

[Bluebarge]

Rovinghawk said:

I believe we pay lots of money in & get access to a Single Market worth 4-5% of UK GDP a year

EFA. CBI figures
http://news.cbi.org.uk/reports/our-global-future/o...

[PugwasHDJ80]

KrissKross said:

The day we leave the EU we will be at least 8% better off.

This video from Professor Patrick Minford is a clear insight into the ignorance of the politicians even when presented with facts about leaving the EU, its a bit long but worth viewing:

https://youtu.be/leKEUT1TiLU

Unfortunately you wont see this guy on QT any time soon.

Edited by KrissKross on Monday 30th November 13:06

He used to be my economics lecturer at Cardiff- a very bright guy

He wasn't much of a lecturer though