Discussion
PRTVR said:
This morning on the north east news there was a piece on Nissan at Sunderland, they are making their new luxury car the infinity there, at the end it was mentioned that the French government are sticking their nose's in, who would have thought it, the French looking after themselves, that could impact on the sunderland plant, how can we have further integration, which is what will happen if we stay in, when our partners are prepared to stitch us up.
Just think how competitive and attractive to outside investment if able to inwardly invest the vast sums of money we're handing over to the EU to squander and prop up failures elsewhere.steveT350C said:
The EU will not become a single country. It just wants to assimilate nation states, to grow for the benefit of the brainwashed Eurocrats and their global socialist progressive ideal, and God be damned to the electorate.
It will explicitly state that it is a single country.What attributes do you give to a geographic area(s) that mean that you can confidently call it a country?
XCP said:
don4l said:
Good news!
Denmark had a referendum yesterday. They voted on a proposal to adopt EU justice laws. The proposal was rejected.
Good news for who? Us or the Danes?Denmark had a referendum yesterday. They voted on a proposal to adopt EU justice laws. The proposal was rejected.
Dave's broken promises.
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/ten_years_of_d...
Many of us simply didn't believe Cameron when he said that he would renegotiate our relationship with the EU. The link above show just how disingenuos he has been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLF5FE21AE1F0CC...
for those of you who may have missed this...heaven help us all when Turkey join the EU.
for those of you who may have missed this...heaven help us all when Turkey join the EU.
It's also a country that appears to be moving away from being a secular democracy.
Just what we need.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21616998-rece...
Just what we need.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21616998-rece...
wc98 said:
Mario149 said:
From the info I have garnered so far, I'd be happy with the status quo (in terms of the democratic process in the EU) with say a mandatory referendum on whether the UK wants to stay in say once every 10 years.
I do think that the running of the EU lacks transparency, but not in the sense of undemocratic shady deals. For me it's the sense we don't get the visibility of the EU government that we do of Westminster. We have no "buy in" to the process that's going on like we do in our national gov. We see news on what politicians in the HoC are discussing/voting on, but hardly ever hear anything on what our MEPs are doing. And who seriously looked up the MEP they voted for the last time? I know I didn't. And I consider myself quite politically active: I follow what's going on in Westminster politics, what the issues of the day are and what positions people hold.
If we were all engaged more on EU level politics/debates/votes, I suspect we would feel less like we didn't have a voice.
Anyway, just my 2p worth
that is a strange position to take when you admittedly have not had too hard a look at how things work, or in most cases don't at eu level.I do think that the running of the EU lacks transparency, but not in the sense of undemocratic shady deals. For me it's the sense we don't get the visibility of the EU government that we do of Westminster. We have no "buy in" to the process that's going on like we do in our national gov. We see news on what politicians in the HoC are discussing/voting on, but hardly ever hear anything on what our MEPs are doing. And who seriously looked up the MEP they voted for the last time? I know I didn't. And I consider myself quite politically active: I follow what's going on in Westminster politics, what the issues of the day are and what positions people hold.
If we were all engaged more on EU level politics/debates/votes, I suspect we would feel less like we didn't have a voice.
Anyway, just my 2p worth
every person i know that has intimate knowledge of eu machinations relating to their particular sector agrees it is a clusterf
k of epic proportions. take the common fisheries policy , stocks of every single commercially viable species were depleted to the lowest levels ever in eu waters as a direct result of eu mismanagement. the worst aspect of this was as much as 50% of what was caught each year was discarded dead , not landed for food,as a result of piss poor management by the commission responsible.before anyone comments that mixed fisheries are difficult to manage, norway, russia and iceland all manage fine. in this case the actual politics is the biggest problem. instead of having a benefit to the eu fisheries as a whole outlook, the horse trading regarding quotas and interpretation of scientific assessments between regions is the main influence in diluting meaningful management measures.
nepotism and cronyism is rife. it would not take too much digging to see where a lot of the missing money has gone.eu politicians at local level and private companies were not building roads to nowhere for the fun of it,nor subsidising solar energy generation at night because it was value for money for the eu taxpayers. it is one massive scam at worst ,at best an unnecessary multiple tier of unneeded bureaucracy whose funding would be better spent elsewhere.
Commissioners are not directly elected - this I get. But our elected UK government appoints our one and the commissioners have terms of 5 years, same as our MPs/cabinet ministers. They can be removed. The way some people talk about it you would think that they are there for life, when in reality it would seem to depend on who the current UK gov appoints. That said, would I prefer it if we could directly elect our commissioner? Yes.
The fact that a commissioner is in place to look after the best interests of all EU countries also makes sense in my head, in the same way that a cabinet minister is there to look after the best interests of all constituencies, not just his own. And whatever laws etc are proposed to the EU parliament, our MEPS have a chance to vote down.
As I said before, I don't think the "EU is not democratic" argument stacks up, certainly not to the degree the hype would suggest. I think some are confusing disliking the results of the EU democracy (i.e. us not getting our own way as we are just one of many in Europe) with us not being able to have our say in the democracy.
As a result, if I vote to leave, it won't be because I think I don't / the UK doesn't have a proper say. It will be because I don't like the policies/laws
Mario149 said:
The fact that a commissioner is in place to look after the best interests of all EU countries also makes sense in my head, in the same way that a cabinet minister is there to look after the best interests of all constituencies, not just his ownLondon.
Because that works well.And, in a nutshell, this is my objection to the EU; in the same way as constituency MPs "go native" once in Westminster, so MEPs and EU officials do, once they're on the Brussels-Strasbourg magic roundabout.
Well, Dave's negotiations are going well.
He's just come out of a meeting with the Polish PM, claiming that the negotiations had been "excellent".
Unfortunately, the Polish PM said that they did not see eye to eye.
http://order-order.com/2015/12/10/lost-in-translat...
He's just come out of a meeting with the Polish PM, claiming that the negotiations had been "excellent".
Unfortunately, the Polish PM said that they did not see eye to eye.
http://order-order.com/2015/12/10/lost-in-translat...
don4l said:
Well, Dave's negotiations are going well.
He's just come out of a meeting with the Polish PM, claiming that the negotiations had been "excellent".
Unfortunately, the Polish PM said that they did not see eye to eye.
http://order-order.com/2015/12/10/lost-in-translat...
CMD is a lost cause, and he's also on a lost cause. He's just come out of a meeting with the Polish PM, claiming that the negotiations had been "excellent".
Unfortunately, the Polish PM said that they did not see eye to eye.
http://order-order.com/2015/12/10/lost-in-translat...
As you said, 'excellent constructive talks', then Beata Szydło simply beats him up with 'open borders will stay'.
Come on Dave, give us the Ref and we'll blow the whistle on your lost cause.
Is the headline of this Telegraph article not an example of the bias that runs through most of our media:
Brexit fears after David Cameron fails to win over Polish Prime Minister on EU renegotiation
Brexit fears ffs! Who the hell is fearful?
How about: Brexit hopes after David Cameron fails to win over Polish Prime Minister on EU renegotiation
Brexit fears after David Cameron fails to win over Polish Prime Minister on EU renegotiation
Brexit fears ffs! Who the hell is fearful?
How about: Brexit hopes after David Cameron fails to win over Polish Prime Minister on EU renegotiation
don4l said:
Societe General have said that the will probable move 2000 jobs to London to avoid the EU transaction tax.
Think of the jobs that will be lost if we stay in the EU.
Think of the jobs that will be lost if we stay in the EU.
Obviously in the case of Brexit there won't be an EU transaction tax, its only rationale is to cream off more from the UK.
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