Council tax rises get go-ahead
Discussion
"Fair" is nothing but an opinion. It might mean we all pay the same amount, that we all pay the same %, that we all pay for what we use, that we all pay an increasing % as we get richer, that we all pay a punitive amount for some sinful thing like driving or smoking or drinking, that we all pay in proportion to the amount we spend on luxuries...
p1esk said:
otolith said:
A community charge which took account of ability to pay would be a lot fairer and simpler than our current system of discounts and benefits.
Yes, "ability to pay" is the important bit.It was the unwilling to pay mob that killed it off last time.
Apart from that side issue, how the heck could such a system be administrated within anything like a reasonable cost. Save yourselves, it can't be done. The policy is dead and buried, just where it belongs.
Swindon Borough Council has increased my bill by 4.5%. Heard on news average national increase is 3.1%.
What's the point in promising caps on council tax when all a council has to do is cap its 'general expenses' then is able to add in expenses for social care; fire; police; non-parish etc which appear to be uncapped?
What's the point in promising caps on council tax when all a council has to do is cap its 'general expenses' then is able to add in expenses for social care; fire; police; non-parish etc which appear to be uncapped?
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Welshbeef said:
Yep the country voted hard and violently against the poll tax.
No, the unwashed wasters who demonstarted against the Tax (despite the fact they would never have been eligible to pay it) won the day.As a result, singlies YET AGAIN subsidise couples.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
No, the unwashed wasters who demonstarted against the Tax (despite the fact they would never have been eligible to pay it) won the day.
As a result, singlies YET AGAIN subsidise couples.
I can only presume that you weren't around at the time from these remarks.As a result, singlies YET AGAIN subsidise couples.
EVERYBODY was eligible to pay it. It was a tax on being alive and being over 18, and that was one of the major problems with it. People who own or rent houses are easily tracked down, but those who don't are not so easy. I worked for a local authority at the time and, although not directly involved in Poll Tax collection myself, I saw first hand what was going on. Examples:
The middle aged couple with a couple or three working age children still at home, who were in and out of work. The parents felt "responsible" for their kids Poll Tax so either left themselves short of other things to pay it or got into arrears.
The itinerant nature of some inner-city residential areas where some people, especially the young, may only be at an address for a few weeks and then move on elsewhere. Virtually impossible to trace and keep tabs on, so more arrears. It was also a regressive tax; where everybody is supposed to pay the same then it disproportionately affected the lower paid.
Councils were given a nightmare to administer, and increasing arrears levels were blamed on their incompetence.
The system was based on flawed logic ie. "everybody uses the service so everybody pays." But if the dustcart comes to your house once a week (as they did in those days) and emptied the bin, it cost no more and no less to empty if there was one or six people's rubbish in that bin.
The system tended to favour "leafy suburbia" over large conurbations (some might say "rigged" and I could understand why they may think that way, but I couldn't possibly comment...). There was one local council in London (Lambeth IIRC) that actually charged no Poll Tax whilst the adjoining authority (Battersea IIRC) was one of the highest rates in the country. The way the thing was structured meant that "good" voters who elected conservative councils tended to pay a lot less than "bad" voters who voted in labour administrations.
And it most certainly was not just the Poll Tax riots that killed it. Initially the government tried to spin the line that it was all Marxists, Trotskyist and various other ill-intentioned agitators who were causing the problems. Until the TV reports cut to the groups of reasonably well-heeled pensioners who were also out there with their placards.
The main thing that killed the Poll Tax was the fact that local government finances in some areas came close to breaking point because of the arrears they didn't have a cat in hell's chance of collecting, and a realisation by national government that if this went on they would be wiped out in the next GE. The tax was piloted in Scotland and is the main reason why the conservative party has been virtually wiped out north of the border.
But don't just take my word for it. There is plenty on the internet that tells the full story. You could do worse than starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Charge
Of course I was around at the time. 
Under Poll Tax I saved, oh, probably no more than £30 a year, whereas my neighbours tax burden doubled. Not because Poll Tax was unfair per se, but because Councils saw the cash cow. Clearly an inequitable situation.
However, given that Community Charge is based upon a 'Service' based upon a houshold of 2 adults, and given that this is accepted in the fact that there is a single person discount, tell me how in any way, shape, or form, a single person discount of a mere 25% is either a. Equitable, or b. Reasonable, or c. Not subsidising couples.
Oh, that's right you CAN'T.
PS. Quoting Wiki, as opposed to research, is for the hard of thinking.
Under Poll Tax I saved, oh, probably no more than £30 a year, whereas my neighbours tax burden doubled. Not because Poll Tax was unfair per se, but because Councils saw the cash cow. Clearly an inequitable situation.
However, given that Community Charge is based upon a 'Service' based upon a houshold of 2 adults, and given that this is accepted in the fact that there is a single person discount, tell me how in any way, shape, or form, a single person discount of a mere 25% is either a. Equitable, or b. Reasonable, or c. Not subsidising couples.
Oh, that's right you CAN'T.
PS. Quoting Wiki, as opposed to research, is for the hard of thinking.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Thursday 31st March 21:50
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