2 Russian Heli's downed?
Discussion
Lefty said:
So one of our best mates gets thumped in the pub, asks us for help and we pretend nothing happened just in case we get drawn into a brawl?
This, pretty much.Turkey are arming the same people that we are (supposedly) supporting. In fact it's US arms and Saudi money that's passing to the rebels via Turkey.
The Russians are BOMBING the people we are arming. This was always going to end up in a situation where "we" we're going to come up against Russia. The only reason it was the Turks who fired first is because they're in the frontline.
Now that things have come to a head some people appear to be wetting their pants and suggesting Turkey is to blame. FFS if people are going to get involved in stupid pointless conflicts lets at least have the balls to stand with our "allies"
FourWheelDrift said:
What the actual f
k can you not understand?
Turkey didn't shoot the helicopters down.
Turkey = Turkey
Turkmen = Syria rebels with Turkish heritage who are fighting Assad's regime (the Russians have already been bombing these guys)
Calm down.k can you not understand?Turkey didn't shoot the helicopters down.
Turkey = Turkey
Turkmen = Syria rebels with Turkish heritage who are fighting Assad's regime (the Russians have already been bombing these guys)
First off the Turkmens are actively being supported by the Turks. It certainly looks very murky: Erdogan is using the Turkmen as proxies to control the buffer zone on the Turkish border. The Russians are attempting to prise out that control.
See
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/...
Al Monitor has some contacts with the Syrian gov, but is based out of Washington, and doesn't seem completely off its mark in terms of its assessment of what's going on.
If seen from a Syrian perspective, Turkey *does* appear to be attempting to undermine Russia's push to establish air control over the area adjacent to the buffer zone.
In what sense are Turkey and Saudi Arabia our "best mates"?
Besides I, and I would hope most people old enough to be in a pub wouldn't go rolling our sleeves up looking for a ruck. Especially if we knew our mate had a habit of making his mouth go.
The idea of turning this very nasty conflict into an excuse to play some stupid macho game with Russia is as dumb as anything I can imagine.
Besides I, and I would hope most people old enough to be in a pub wouldn't go rolling our sleeves up looking for a ruck. Especially if we knew our mate had a habit of making his mouth go.
The idea of turning this very nasty conflict into an excuse to play some stupid macho game with Russia is as dumb as anything I can imagine.
Lefty said:
dandarez said:
Soov535 said:
What the actual f
k do Turkey think they are doing??!
I nearly choked on my lunch seeing that doctored pic! And to think we are currently looking stupid enough to get involved in this deranged war within 72 hours.
ks ever since joining the gang and he's been making trouble. TTmonkey said:
But he's not one of our best mates. he's a bit of a C**t quite frankly and deserves a hiding. He's been billy big bks ever since joining the gang and he's been making trouble.
Best mate while we need him and fks ever since joining the gang and he's been making trouble. k him when the fit hits the Shan?Remind me again how our allies, the "relatively moderate nutters" , are getting their weaponry? And how long they'd last once the money and the weapons dried up?
Countdown said:
You know when that awful awful Jeremy Corbyn says "let's not bomb Syria"..... He may actually be talking sense.....
the problem with that is whilst I agree with NOT bombing Syria, my reasoning has nothing in common with Corbyn's views.Yes, I believe we need to actively participate in dealing with ISIS, however, tossing a few bombs around is not only pointless but somewhat counter productive.
what we need is a LARGE coalition of nations, with ground troops, backup up by close air support (Apache/A-10's/etc), then we could offer a constructive part of the solution.
Countdown said:
This, pretty much.
Turkey are arming the same people that we are (supposedly) supporting. In fact it's US arms and Saudi money that's passing to the rebels via Turkey.
The Russians are BOMBING the people we are arming. This was always going to end up in a situation where "we" we're going to come up against Russia. The only reason it was the Turks who fired first is because they're in the frontline.
Now that things have come to a head some people appear to be wetting their pants and suggesting Turkey is to blame. FFS if people are going to get involved in stupid pointless conflicts lets at least have the balls to stand with our "allies"
This is like Afghanistan after the Russian invasion, let's give the "moderates" stinger AAM and train up Osama bin Laden.Turkey are arming the same people that we are (supposedly) supporting. In fact it's US arms and Saudi money that's passing to the rebels via Turkey.
The Russians are BOMBING the people we are arming. This was always going to end up in a situation where "we" we're going to come up against Russia. The only reason it was the Turks who fired first is because they're in the frontline.
Now that things have come to a head some people appear to be wetting their pants and suggesting Turkey is to blame. FFS if people are going to get involved in stupid pointless conflicts lets at least have the balls to stand with our "allies"
As reported on PPRUNE, Turkey is NATO and Russians had told the USa their flight plans, there are AWACS from Turkey, Israel and probably USA in the region so highly unlikely Turkey would have shot the SU24 without American knowledge or encouragement....
And let's not forget how many Turkish incursions of Greek airspace occur yearly. They need to seal the Syrian/turkey border, will stop the migrants flow, re-supply of ISIS etc.
Edited by arguti on Tuesday 1st December 14:35
arguti said:
so highly unlikely Turkey would have shot the SU24 without American knowledge or encouragement....
that's a big stretch!Yes, I am sure the US was 100% aware of what was going on at the time, however, no way would they have been involved/encouraged/sanctioned the action to down the Russian plane.
Lefty said:
dandarez said:
Soov535 said:
What the actual f
k do Turkey think they are doing??! I nearly choked on my lunch seeing that doctored pic! And to think we are currently looking stupid enough to get involved in this deranged war within 72 hours.
You do know the French attackers were all French?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Given that it's the two main muslim factions that are kicking merry hell out of each other, which muslim-backed peacekeeping force do you think will be seen as "fair and impartial"? The Ismailis? The Druze?anonymous said:
[redacted]
by supporting various Al-Qaeda factions?? ok then.....
Scuffers said:
Countdown said:
You know when that awful awful Jeremy Corbyn says "let's not bomb Syria"..... He may actually be talking sense.....
the problem with that is whilst I agree with NOT bombing Syria, my reasoning has nothing in common with Corbyn's views.Yes, I believe we need to actively participate in dealing with ISIS, however, tossing a few bombs around is not only pointless but somewhat counter productive.
what we need is a LARGE coalition of nations, with ground troops, backup up by close air support (Apache/A-10's/etc), then we could offer a constructive part of the solution.
Countdown said:
TTmonkey said:
But he's not one of our best mates. he's a bit of a C**t quite frankly and deserves a hiding. He's been billy big bks ever since joining the gang and he's been making trouble.
Best mate while we need him and fks ever since joining the gang and he's been making trouble. k him when the fit hits the Shan?Remind me again how our allies, the "relatively moderate nutters" , are getting their weaponry? And how long they'd last once the money and the weapons dried up?
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