Douglas Carswell: UKIP needs a 'fresh face' as leader

[Esseesse]

rs1952 said:

However, UKIP needs Carswell probably more than Carswell needs UKIP.

I disagree. Carswell could win his seat standing for many parties or as an independent. However, too much chopping and changing will not look good.

If he went elsewhere, UKIP would lose votes in Clacton. I doubt it would affect their vote elsewhere measurably. Since the election in May they're polling 25% higher.

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

Kindly back this up with some real evidence?

That he was in the press? Try Google. As for the current mess, the subject of this thread and just about everything in the press about UKIP since the election will suffice.

I know it's painful for you, Scuffers, but your beloved party and your adored leader are a busted flush.

[Esseesse]

Zod said:

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

Kindly back this up with some real evidence?

That he was in the press? Try Google. As for the current mess, the subject of this thread and just about everything in the press about UKIP since the election will suffice.

He was in the press enough that if you're interested in politics you would know his face and if you're of the typical PH persuasion probably recall appreciating his contributions on QT and the like.

Zod said:

I know it's painful for you, Scuffers, but your beloved party and your adored leader are a busted flush.

Polls disagree on both fronts.

[Zod]

Esseesse said:

Polls disagree on both fronts.

That's more defecting Labour voters, but not enough and too widely spread to win any Parliamentary seats.

[Axionknight]

Zod said:

Esseesse said:

Polls disagree on both fronts.

That's more defecting Labour voters, but not enough and too widely spread to win any Parliamentary seats.

It's a good job there isn't an election tomorrow then isn't it?

Four years is a long time - plenty can happen, dissatisfaction with the EU and Mr Corbyn doing a blinding job of ruining Labour could help UKIPs cause at the polls.

Or not, of course - 2020 could be another resounding dissapointment for them in terms of MPs being voted in.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

Kindly back this up with some real evidence?

That he was in the press? Try Google. As for the current mess, the subject of this thread and just about everything in the press about UKIP since the election will suffice.

OK, google it is...

doing a search on news stories, between entering parliament and defecting to UKIP, there are some 119 links to BBC's news stories, (over the same timeframe, Farage get's more than 3,000)

since defecting to UKIP, (the last 18 months) he get's 286 (vs. 3,000+ for Farage).

So, he was pretty much an anonymous back bencher for 9+ years and in the last 18 months actually featured in the press more than his previous 9+ years in the Tory party.

[Axionknight]

Regardless of party membership he isn't nor has he ever been a heavy weight political figure, I'm sure we can all agree on that - being UKIPs first (and currently only) MP is clearly going to garner him more media attention than being "just another" Tory MP, especially as he defected from one of the incumbant parties and won a by election.

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

Kindly back this up with some real evidence?

That he was in the press? Try Google. As for the current mess, the subject of this thread and just about everything in the press about UKIP since the election will suffice.

OK, google it is...

doing a search on news stories, between entering parliament and defecting to UKIP, there are some 119 links to BBC's news stories, (over the same timeframe, Farage get's more than 3,000)

since defecting to UKIP, (the last 18 months) he get's 286 (vs. 3,000+ for Farage).

So, he was pretty much an anonymous back bencher for 9+ years and in the last 18 months actually featured in the press more than his previous 9+ years in the Tory party.

You really are in denial. It's not about a comparison with the self-publicity machine that is Farage.

Here is the result of a Google News search for Carwell from 1 January to 24 August 2014. It is nonsense to say that he wasn't in the press.

[Funkycoldribena]

Zod said:

That he was in the press? Try Google. As for the current mess, the subject of this thread and just about everything in the press about UKIP since the election will suffice.

I know it's painful for you, Scuffers, but your beloved party and your adored leader are a busted flush.

Seeing as its UKIP's main aim to leave the EU and you seem to have an obsession against the party/leader,why dont you tell us whats so great about the EU?

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

You really are in denial. It's not about a comparison with the self-publicity machine that is Farage.

Here is the result of a Google News search for Carwell from 1 January to 24 August 2014. It is nonsense to say that he wasn't in the press.

never said he was not in the press (since defecting to UKIP)

my point was that before this, he was pretty much unknown.

Farage may well be a "self-publicity machine" as you put it, but as party leader, that's his job.

without Farage, we would not have UKIP, no conversation over the EU/imigration/etc, no referendum, etc etc.

Hell, 5 years ago any mention of immigration got you tarred as a bigot (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman)

Much as you love to deride Farage and UKIP, even in your tiny brain you must recognise just how much they have changed the political landscape (even with only a single MP).

[Axionknight]

Ribena, I don't want to speak for the man but Zods issue is with the party, the EU institution is something else entirely - being anti EU doesn't mean you have to be pro UKIP.

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

You really are in denial. It's not about a comparison with the self-publicity machine that is Farage.

Here is the result of a Google News search for Carwell from 1 January to 24 August 2014. It is nonsense to say that he wasn't in the press.

never said he was not in the press (since defecting to UKIP)

my point was that before this, he was pretty much unknown.

Farage may well be a "self-publicity machine" as you put it, but as party leader, that's his job.

without Farage, we would not have UKIP, no conversation over the EU/imigration/etc, no referendum, etc etc.

Hell, 5 years ago any mention of immigration got you tarred as a bigot (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigoted-woman)

Much as you love to deride Farage and UKIP, even in your tiny brain you must recognise just how much they have changed the political landscape (even with only a single MP).

Nothing there to tell me that UKIP has a future. It was a short term phenomenon. It is true, as I have said before that UKIP raised the prominence of the issues of the EU and immigration, but the EU was already the biggest political issue in the country and UKIP's embrace of immigration as an issue was in part a cynical move to appeal to Labour voters in the North who didn't care about the EU and would never have voted for a party led by a tweedy Southerner.

The link I posted by the way was to the period before Carswell's defection.

[Funkycoldribena]

Axionknight said:

Ribena, I don't want to speak for the man but Zods issue is with the party, the EU institution is something else entirely - being anti EU doesn't mean you have to be pro UKIP.

Why have such a problem with the party then?-strange.I cant stand the Greens but I dont rant and rave about it.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

othing there to tell me that UKIP has a future. It was a short term phenomenon. It is true, as I have said before that UKIP raised the prominence of the issues of the EU and immigration, but the EU was already the biggest political issue in the country and UKIP's embrace of immigration as an issue was in part a cynical move to appeal to Labour voters in the North who didn't care about the EU and would never have voted for a party led by a tweedy Southerner.

The link I posted by the way was to the period before Carswell's defection.

7 months before vs. his 9+ years as a tory MP?

[alfie2244]

Zod said:

You really are in denial. It's not about a comparison with the self-publicity machine that is Farage.

Here is the result of a Google News search for Carwell from 1 January to 24 August 2014. It is nonsense to say that he wasn't in the press.

Try doing same for 2013 or before and see what you get......I did not get much when I did it yesterday.

[tangerine_sedge]

Oh dear, UKIP are now so short of funds they seem to have asked the intern to produce and fact check their latest offering :

misleading bks

[Scuffers]

tangerine_sedge said:

Oh dear, UKIP are now so short of funds they seem to have asked the intern to produce and fact check their latest offering :

misleading bks

actually, that article has no more legitimacy than UKIP's broadcast.

the very first item kind of sets the tone, anybody that's actually watched the E for only the last 9 months must realise Turkey's membership is now top priority for them, 2020 is IMHO very plausible.

as we sit here today, NOBODY can say 100% either way, but I would suggest it's more than a 50/50, thus to claim it's misleading bks is itself, misleading bks.

[markh1973]

Scuffers said:

tangerine_sedge said:

Oh dear, UKIP are now so short of funds they seem to have asked the intern to produce and fact check their latest offering :

misleading bks

actually, that article has no more legitimacy than UKIP's broadcast.

the very first item kind of sets the tone, anybody that's actually watched the E for only the last 9 months must realise Turkey's membership is now top priority for them, 2020 is IMHO very plausible.

as we sit here today, NOBODY can say 100% either way, but I would suggest it's more than a 50/50, thus to claim it's misleading bks is itself, misleading bks.

Don't all EU members have to agree to new countries joining? Cyprus won't approve Turkey which would make their accession to the EU a non- starter.

[Scuffers]

markh1973 said:

Don't all EU members have to agree to new countries joining? Cyprus won't approve Turkey which would make their accession to the EU a non- starter.

your faith in that sort of thing is some a credit to you unfortunately the EU has taken no for an answer so suspect that's a meaningless point.

[markh1973]

Scuffers said:

markh1973 said:

Don't all EU members have to agree to new countries joining? Cyprus won't approve Turkey which would make their accession to the EU a non- starter.

your faith in that sort of thing is some a credit to you unfortunately the EU has taken no for an answer so suspect that's a meaningless point.

Can you translate that into English please?