Douglas Carswell: UKIP needs a 'fresh face' as leader

[tangerine_sedge]

UKIP seems to be more politically confused than even I could imagine :

linky

I'm not suprised by the results though, as truth and not-truth (*) seem to spout from the glorious leaders lips. No wonder the acolytes are confused - more education of the correct answers to tricky pollster questions is required!

(*) When does a resignation not mean a resignation? When does an assasination attempt not equal an assasination attempt? Should a flip-floped promise now be renamed to "doing a Farage"? I.e. I promised my girlfriend I wouldn't come in her mouth, but I totally Faraged her.

[don4l]

tangerine_sedge said:

UKIP seems to be more politically confused than even I could imagine :

linky

I'm not suprised by the results though, as truth and not-truth (*) seem to spout from the glorious leaders lips. No wonder the acolytes are confused - more education of the correct answers to tricky pollster questions is required!

(*) When does a resignation not mean a resignation? When does an assasination attempt not equal an assasination attempt? Should a flip-floped promise now be renamed to "doing a Farage"? I.e. I promised my girlfriend I wouldn't come in her mouth, but I totally Faraged her.

Did you read the article?

I am gobsmacked that anyone could look at those figures and be surprised that UKIP voters are not totally united.

UKIP supporters are the least confused. 72% want to leave the EU. 28% want to stay.

The Conservatives are split 55/45%.

Labour are split 62/38%.

The SNP are split 63/38%.

I won't bother with the LibDems, as they don't matter any more.

[powerstroke]

Maybe some people support UKIP for other policy choices like transport , energy , defence or immigration issues although most want freedom from the EU...

[tangerine_sedge]

don4l said:

Did you read the article?

Not only did I read the article, but I also read this on the UKIP website : "UKIP was founded in 1993 to campaign for the UK’s withdrawal from the EU."

The clue is even in the party name.

[tangerine_sedge]

Oh dear me, more handbags at dawn. I wonder how many MPs UKIP will have this time next year :

here

[Zod]

tangerine_sedge said:

Oh dear me, more handbags at dawn. I wonder how many MPs UKIP will have this time next year :

here

Other than the humiliation of going back to ask Cameron to allow him to take up the whip, it's difficult to see what's keeping Cardwell in UKIP.

[RYH64E]

Zod said:

Other than the humiliation of going back to ask Cameron to allow him to take up the whip, it's difficult to see what's keeping Cardwell in UKIP.

It isn't a choice between UKIP and Conservative, he could (and probably will) stay on as an Independent.

[Zod]

RYH64E said:

Zod said:

Other than the humiliation of going back to ask Cameron to allow him to take up the whip, it's difficult to see what's keeping Cardwell in UKIP.

It isn't a choice between UKIP and Conservative, he could (and probably will) stay on as an Independent.

Independent MPs in this country have no voice or influence. He would be wasting his talents (as he has been doing for the last 18 months).

[Einion Yrth]

Zod said:

RYH64E said:

Zod said:

Other than the humiliation of going back to ask Cameron to allow him to take up the whip, it's difficult to see what's keeping Cardwell in UKIP.

It isn't a choice between UKIP and Conservative, he could (and probably will) stay on as an Independent.

Independent MPs in this country have no voice or influence. He would be wasting his talents (as he has been doing for the last 18 months).

He'd never get anywhere in a Cameron led Conservatives. They aren't in any way the best of friends.

[alfie2244]

Zod said:

Independent MPs in this country have no voice or influence. He would be wasting his talents (as he has been doing for the last 18 months).

I was thinking similar...independents very rarely get into the media and certainly not as much as he does so he may be better off staying under the UKIP banner even if he is UKIP's only MP and most coverage, on the face of it, is often negative.

[Thorodin]

So exactly how did Carswell excel in performance prior to decamping to UKIP then?

[Esseesse]

Thorodin said:

So exactly how did Carswell excel in performance prior to decamping to UKIP then?

My impression is that he mainly excelled by being in possession of a brain and therefore being a cut above the average MP. He actually has some political principles and is capable of forming an argument that would at least be worthy of consideration. I like Mr Carswell, but I feel this rocking of the boat is pointless. He would have a point if there was a large desire within UKIP to change course WRT the leader.

Having said that, I suspect that some civil differences in opinion are exploited by the media to look like some major falling out. We see that with the Labour party too (Corbyn vs Blairite) however the media does not exploit the obvious rifts in the Tory party the same way (pro EU vs those wanting to leave), I suppose Cameron must fit with the media's world view.

[Scuffers]

Esseesse said:

My impression is that he mainly excelled by being in possession of a brain and therefore being a cut above the average MP. He actually has some political principles and is capable of forming an argument that would at least be worthy of consideration. I like Mr Carswell, but I feel this rocking of the boat is pointless. He would have a point if there was a large desire within UKIP to change course WRT the leader.

I agree with you, I think that Carswell's failings are more down to his inability to deal with the press objectively and ends up allowing them to 'drive' the agenda (ie. UKIP in turmoil)

Before his defection, I doubt he has ever come under any real press scrutiny as such, and whilst I am sure he is one of the more principled MP's with a real conscience, he needs to stop acting like a wronged child.

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Esseesse said:

My impression is that he mainly excelled by being in possession of a brain and therefore being a cut above the average MP. He actually has some political principles and is capable of forming an argument that would at least be worthy of consideration. I like Mr Carswell, but I feel this rocking of the boat is pointless. He would have a point if there was a large desire within UKIP to change course WRT the leader.

I agree with you, I think that Carswell's failings are more down to his inability to deal with the press objectively and ends up allowing them to 'drive' the agenda (ie. UKIP in turmoil)

Before his defection, I doubt he has ever come under any real press scrutiny as such, and whilst I am sure he is one of the more principled MP's with a real conscience, he needs to stop acting like a wronged child.

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection. UKIP is a mess. Cardwell knows this and is trying to do something about it, but the buffoon who runs UKIP will frustrate him at every opportunity.

Kindly back this up with some real evidence?

[alfie2244]

Zod said:

He was in the press all the time before his defection.

Was he?

[Thorodin]

Maybe in the press but for what reason other than predicted bolter? I was referring to any remarkable political insights or accomplishments to his credit, nothing to do with his principles. He could keep his mouth firmly shut and still have sound gentlemanly principles, which I'm sure he has, but he is being praised for being a worthy and valued politician; on what grounds?

[Scuffers]

way I see it, the only reason the majority of people will have heard of Douglas Carswell is because of him defecting to UKIP

on the other hand the only reason the majority of people will have heard of UKIP is due to Nigel Farage

[rs1952]

Douglas Carswell could not be described as a man who toes party lines if he doesn't agree with them.

That's probably why he was a thorn in the side of senior tories, and now appears to be becoming a thorn in the side of UKIP.

However, UKIP needs Carswell probably more than Carswell needs UKIP. Should he defect back to the tories, or simply just go independent, he would probably keep his Clacton seat. UKIP, on the other hand, would have gone from two seats in the Commons before the 2015 GE to nil if he goes. And that would be a political disaster for UKIP, bearing in mind that further defections (after seeing what has happened to the last two) are becoming more and more remote.

[powerstroke]

rs1952 said:

Douglas Carswell could not be described as a man who toes party lines if he doesn't agree with them.

That's probably why he was a thorn in the side of senior tories, and now appears to be becoming a thorn in the side of UKIP.

However, UKIP needs Carswell probably more than Carswell needs UKIP. Should he defect back to the tories, or simply just go independent, he would probably keep his Clacton seat. UKIP, on the other hand, would have gone from two seats in the Commons before the 2015 GE to nil if he goes. And that would be a political disaster for UKIP, bearing in mind that further defections (after seeing what has happened to the last two) are becoming more and more remote.

it would also be a disaster for the country too!! once corbyn gets knifed we will have a return to insipid lab,tory,lab,tory
system of my turn to run the country seesaw ....