Moderate Muslims
Discussion
RichB said:
Yep, you said your concern was more significant than the one under discussion and took a swipe at the other poster as being anti-muslim. Seems pretty negative to me. 
The relevant word being MORE. It's a relative word. I'd take less of a "swipe" at the other poster if he didn't try to disguise his anti Muslim feelings. I'd respect him more if he just said he doesn't like Muslims. Period. No need to use a thin veil to legitimise his feelings.
RichB said:
Sam All said:
RichB said:
I agree it's horrific and totally unnecessary in the 21stC but that's religion for you.
Ban such practices, ban religion. Excellent idea.Part the money from such people.
Might influence a re-think.
Alpinestars said:
Troubleatmill said:
Yes... As long the the little blessing is said.
But some Muslims prefer that the animal is not stunned as the animal has to be living while it has it's throat cut- and all the blood run out ( Some have the view that being stunned as not living... so does;t count )
It is a horrific practice that has no place in modern society.
You can read up on the views of RSPCA, PETA etc etc.
Personally, I'm more worried about how the animals are kept and treated whilst alive. Battery farming is no less "horrific". Or are you as usual more worried about Muslim practices?But some Muslims prefer that the animal is not stunned as the animal has to be living while it has it's throat cut- and all the blood run out ( Some have the view that being stunned as not living... so does;t count )
It is a horrific practice that has no place in modern society.
You can read up on the views of RSPCA, PETA etc etc.
k about halal or kosher slaughter, but I do care about bigots.
I think the Muslim creation story is pretty much identical to the Christian one. God made the earth, put Adam and Eve on it and that's when the trouble started.
Quite a lot of halal meat is labelled as such, though not always very obviously. There are various sites showing some of the labels.
I don't like unnecessary animal cruelty but I like veal and foei gras, so I'm not going to jump on the animal rights bandwagon all of a sudden as that seems a bit hypocritical. The main reason to avoid this is that the certification bodies are seemingly quite often Islamist groups and buying halal meat could be funding them.
http://www.shariawatch.org.uk/articles/halal#.VqmD...
Quite a lot of halal meat is labelled as such, though not always very obviously. There are various sites showing some of the labels.
I don't like unnecessary animal cruelty but I like veal and foei gras, so I'm not going to jump on the animal rights bandwagon all of a sudden as that seems a bit hypocritical. The main reason to avoid this is that the certification bodies are seemingly quite often Islamist groups and buying halal meat could be funding them.
http://www.shariawatch.org.uk/articles/halal#.VqmD...
Alpinestars said:
Personally, I'm more worried about how the animals are kept and treated whilst alive. Battery farming is no less "horrific". Or are you as usual more worried about Muslim practices?
I do wish you stop with slight digs, as I said previously. I think you are a better man than that. 1/ Stunning then despatching is humane. No stunning is not. Plenty of animal welfare sites to chose from.
2/ I believe Kosher meat is handled in a similar vein.
3/ Battery farming is cruel also. However, with the population of us humans out of control, I don't believe there is enough free space in the UK for every animal to be free range. Either a lot of us are going to become vegetarian quickly or battery farms will grow in number.
Troubleatmill said:
I do wish you stop with slight digs, as I said previously. I think you are a better man than that.
1/ Stunning then despatching is humane. No stunning is not. Plenty of animal welfare sites to chose from.
2/ I believe Kosher meat is handled in a similar vein.
3/ Battery farming is cruel also. However, with the population of us humans out of control, I don't believe there is enough free space in the UK for every animal to be free range. Either a lot of us are going to become vegetarian quickly or battery farms will grow in number.
Sorry, but you're totally disingenuous. Ostensibly, animal cruelty is ok so long as they follow your rules, or you can rationalise the reason for cruelty?1/ Stunning then despatching is humane. No stunning is not. Plenty of animal welfare sites to chose from.
2/ I believe Kosher meat is handled in a similar vein.
3/ Battery farming is cruel also. However, with the population of us humans out of control, I don't believe there is enough free space in the UK for every animal to be free range. Either a lot of us are going to become vegetarian quickly or battery farms will grow in number.
Some of your points have nothing to do with the subject matter you raise. They are, as you put it, slight digs (at Muslims), so rightly or wrongly, I have a dig back at you in the hope you'll see the obvious flaws in your arguments.
Nothing personal, just trying to expose your real motives, because I don't buy your stories.
Now where's that kosher pie, and halal pint.
Alpinestars said:
Troubleatmill said:
I do wish you stop with slight digs, as I said previously. I think you are a better man than that.
1/ Stunning then despatching is humane. No stunning is not. Plenty of animal welfare sites to chose from.
2/ I believe Kosher meat is handled in a similar vein.
3/ Battery farming is cruel also. However, with the population of us humans out of control, I don't believe there is enough free space in the UK for every animal to be free range. Either a lot of us are going to become vegetarian quickly or battery farms will grow in number.
Sorry, but you're totally disingenuous. Ostensibly, animal cruelty is ok so long as they follow your rules, or you can rationalise the reason for cruelty?1/ Stunning then despatching is humane. No stunning is not. Plenty of animal welfare sites to chose from.
2/ I believe Kosher meat is handled in a similar vein.
3/ Battery farming is cruel also. However, with the population of us humans out of control, I don't believe there is enough free space in the UK for every animal to be free range. Either a lot of us are going to become vegetarian quickly or battery farms will grow in number.
Some of your points have nothing to do with the subject matter you raise. They are, as you put it, slight digs (at Muslims), so rightly or wrongly, I have a dig back at you in the hope you'll see the obvious flaws in your arguments.
Nothing personal, just trying to expose your real motives, because I don't buy your stories.
Now where's that kosher pie, and halal pint.
Troubleatmill said:
Wow! Just. Wow!
Without wishing to keep going O/T you may (or may not) want to google videos of partially stunned* chickens being decapitated. Abattoirs generally are NOT massively bothered about animal welfare. BUT we don't want to talk about THAT...that might sound hypocritical......FWIW 90%+ of halal meat in the UK is stunned so hopefully that addresses some of your concerns
Countdown said:
WinstonWolf said:
Countdown said:
WinstonWolf said:
It doesn't frighten me, I just don't think it's good for Britain.
Thirty years ago you'd have been called reactionary if you said the supermarkets would be selling halal. Who knew we'd all be eating it today...
We're not all eating it.Thirty years ago you'd have been called reactionary if you said the supermarkets would be selling halal. Who knew we'd all be eating it today...
it is more than just about the method of killing (not justifying it...but we do the same with lobster.... 
) but also the ritual prayer: It would NOT be ok to them if the animal was slaughtered in the same way but a Christian prayer was said over it.
I also understand that Halal is not Kosher (difference is prayer). Happy to stand corrected on this.
) but also the ritual prayer: It would NOT be ok to them if the animal was slaughtered in the same way but a Christian prayer was said over it.I also understand that Halal is not Kosher (difference is prayer). Happy to stand corrected on this.
Countdown said:
Without wishing to keep going O/T you may (or may not) want to google videos of partially stunned* chickens being decapitated. Abattoirs generally are NOT massively bothered about animal welfare. BUT we don't want to talk about THAT...that might sound hypocritical......
FWIW 90%+ of halal meat in the UK is stunned so hopefully that addresses some of your concerns
Its true that around 90% of meat and poultry in the UK is stunned prior to slaughter (the actual % varies from species to species) , and that includes Halal meat. FWIW 90%+ of halal meat in the UK is stunned so hopefully that addresses some of your concerns
Non stunned slaughter, whether by design or by accident or by negligence is not a good thing. In these cases animals may take seconds to die, but in some cases it can take far far longer. The suffering, stress and distress to the animal is considerable.
I would disagree with you on your point that abattoirs are NOT massively bothered about animal welfare. I have been in abattoirs all over the world, and in practically every case the slaughter men were conscientious and caring. The UK, Denmark, Holland, New Zealand and Ireland have particularly high standards in my experience. That is not to say that there are not bad incidents or bad practices. Sadly these do occur (and are filmed in secret and put on the web by PETA et al) but they really are the exception to the rule.
Simply put, mistreating animals at slaughter is bad for the quality of the meat produced (in short high levels of stress leads to tough meat amongst other problems) and as such is bad for business. Like I said, its not perfect, but generally it is good, rather than generally being bad.
Tsubaki said:
Troubleatmill said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tsubaki said:
Genuine questions for triggerh4ppy, as you seem like a moderate muslim….
I know the muslim calendar differs somewhat from the Christian one, but how old is the earth according to your beliefs?
After having watched the interesting Attenborough documentary about the discovery of a largest, so far, dinosaur, dated at 1001.6 million years old, what are the muslim thoughts and beliefs regarding evolution?
Keep in mind there are plenty of american (and perhaps UK) christians who don't believe in dinosaurs or evolution so it's not exactly an islam issue.I know the muslim calendar differs somewhat from the Christian one, but how old is the earth according to your beliefs?
After having watched the interesting Attenborough documentary about the discovery of a largest, so far, dinosaur, dated at 1001.6 million years old, what are the muslim thoughts and beliefs regarding evolution?
Take a for instance... Moses parting of the red sea has been debated and some put it down to a strange tidal stuff..... and others as.... it is just a story.
But as a Muslim, do you genuinely believe Muhammed split the moon in two with his fingers? Or is it just a tale to spread the word?
hstewie is a muslim? I believe countdown is one as well as I seem to recall a derisory comment he made in the past about the jews and the promised land because of ‘some old book’… oh, the irony! I asked the question to triggerh4ppy as he is, apparently, a moderate muslim… but perhaps he’s too busy stoning gays to answer?The two questions remain and I would still like to hear a comment from a moderate muslim?
It was simply a comment because it seems an odd (but obviously perfectly reasonable) thing to be curious about as lots of religions can be a bit funny about ignoring stuff like dinosaur bones when it comes to how old the earth is and where everything came from and so on.
andymadmak said:
I would disagree with you on your point that abattoirs are NOT massively bothered about animal welfare. I have been in abattoirs all over the world, and in practically every case the slaughter men were conscientious and caring. The UK, Denmark, Holland, New Zealand and Ireland have particularly high standards in my experience. That is not to say that there are not bad incidents or bad practices. Sadly these do occur (and are filmed in secret and put on the web by PETA et al) but they really are the exception to the rule.
And when the exceptions are publicised it's a big story, such as this halal abbatoir in Yorkshire reported last year:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/halal...
Troubleatmill said:
RichB said:
Troubleatmill said:
If it is stunned.. it is halal.
Is that so? I'm an atheist so not up on the practices of people who have strange beliefs however I understood halal meat meant; not stunned, a muslim chap saying a prayer and slaughtered by cutting the animal's throat etc. Is that not the case? But some Muslims prefer that the animal is not stunned as the animal has to be living while it has it's throat cut- and all the blood run out ( Some have the view that being stunned as not living... so does;t count )
It is a horrific practice that has no place in modern society.
You can read up on the views of RSPCA, PETA etc etc.
Troubleatmill said:
RichB said:
Troubleatmill said:
If it is stunned.. it is halal.
Is that so? I'm an atheist so not up on the practices of people who have strange beliefs however I understood halal meat meant; not stunned, a muslim chap saying a prayer and slaughtered by cutting the animal's throat etc. Is that not the case? But some Muslims prefer that the animal is not stunned as the animal has to be living while it has it's throat cut- and all the blood run out ( Some have the view that being stunned as not living... so does;t count )
It is a horrific practice that has no place in modern society.
You can read up on the views of RSPCA, PETA etc etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06zlmk9/news...
Muslim women striving for better representation.
Worth watching 11:11 onwards
Muslim women striving for better representation.
Worth watching 11:11 onwards
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff