Moderate Muslims
Discussion
zygalski said:
Part of the problem is a small but vocal section of PH N,P & E enthusiast members who are not only extreme right wingers, but also devout atheists. It's a fetid combination that pretty much rules out any sensible conversation & almost always ends with if they don't like our way of life then they can go home. What exactly is our way of life in multi-cultural Britain? Also, where exactly is home if you were born & raised here?
I'm white, middle class & also agnostic & I can't relate to the right wing PH nutters any more than I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
99.9% of British Muslims don't need to change a single thing about the way they live their lives. However, plenty of very vocal PH'ers really need to be dragged kicking & screaming into this century.
Traitorous. I'm white, middle class & also agnostic & I can't relate to the right wing PH nutters any more than I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
99.9% of British Muslims don't need to change a single thing about the way they live their lives. However, plenty of very vocal PH'ers really need to be dragged kicking & screaming into this century.
zygalski said:
Part of the problem is a small but vocal section of PH N,P & E enthusiast members who are not only extreme right wingers, but also devout atheists. It's a fetid combination that pretty much rules out any sensible conversation & almost always ends with if they don't like our way of life then they can go home. What exactly is our way of life in multi-cultural Britain? Also, where exactly is home if you were born & raised here?
I'm white, middle class & also agnostic & I can't relate to the right wing PH nutters any more than I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
99.9% of British Muslims don't need to change a single thing about the way they live their lives. However, plenty of very vocal PH'ers really need to be dragged kicking & screaming into this century.
It was going well until you introduced the 99.9% stat - from where would you pluck that nugget? Go back and read newspaper reports following the Satanic Verses row, 9/11, Gaza etc etc and see if the 'support' offered to their co-religionists matches what you might call 'mainstream UK thinking' or not. Does it match your 99.9% claim?I'm white, middle class & also agnostic & I can't relate to the right wing PH nutters any more than I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
99.9% of British Muslims don't need to change a single thing about the way they live their lives. However, plenty of very vocal PH'ers really need to be dragged kicking & screaming into this century.
If a religion or other popular cause does not share basic precepts of liberal democratic society (freedom of speech being near the top) then do you not think there is/will be a problem? And shouldn't we address it sooner rather than later?
If there is a problem, that is...it may just be newspapers wishing to de-stabilise our multi-culti society.
don4l said:
BSW, I'd like to ask you a question.
Why do you bother?
. I just really used to like PH and I hate that it is being spoiled (in my opinion) by a relentless barrage of anti-foreigner, or anti-muslim posters and threads. But I concede my efforts and countering this are pointless and hence my general reduction in posting lately.Why do you bother?
Don4L said:
You have a degree of wit, which I must admit I enjoy.
THAT'S why I post. Get in!Don4L said:
However, your wit seems to be countered by your lack of intellect.
Your perception of my lack of intelligence is based on me not agreeing with you because you feel that your belief is stating the obvious. There are two possibilities here:
1) You are completely right, I am stupid, and the issue at hand is black and white or
2) Actually you are wrong and it is you that has less intelligence than you think.
Leaving me out of the equation for the moment, what are the general levels of intelligence of the people who disagree with you on this thread? I know of two lawyers, an eye doctor, a surgeon and a couple of business owners. Whatever you might think of my intelligence levels, you can't question theirs.
DON4L said:
We do have a problem with Islamist terrorism. We need to address it.
When the IRA were a problem, nobody felt that we couldn't discuss it. Why do you constantly try to shut down any discussion about the Islam issue?
And this is the problem. Do you think I don't believe there is an Islamist terrorist problem? Is that really what you read into my posts?When the IRA were a problem, nobody felt that we couldn't discuss it. Why do you constantly try to shut down any discussion about the Islam issue?
Do we address it by lumping them in with all the non-terrorist muslims? Did we become anti-Catholic when the IRA were prevalent? Of course not, that only makes it worse.
If there is one sure fire way to light this Islamic tinderbox it is by blaming it on the billion muslims who are predominantly normal people, and giving them a reason to hate us too.
To me THAT is stating the obvious, and your inability to see it appears stupid to me.
zygalski said:
AJS- said:
Part of which problem zygalski?
The problem of reasoned debate when someone like you or Winston has a not so well hidden agenda as countless threads have proven.Your problem is you lump people together to fit with your own preconceptions and prejudices. I'm outspoken on many subjects, yet you never seem to comment when I'm berating white chavs. I wonder why... Actually I don't. You're as prejudiced as those who you seek to silence.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:WinstonWolf said:
Your problem is you lump people together to fit with your own preconceptions and prejudices.
Do you not see a little bit irony in that statement?The prejudice I see here is mostly one way. The whole point of the thread was precisely about not lumping people together and identifying those Muslim groups and leaders who are genuinely benign and which are ultimately supremacist and jihadist.
The predictable response from some is that it's just an elaborate cover for how much I dislike Muslims as people and how any talk of it is inherently hostile.
The predictable response from some is that it's just an elaborate cover for how much I dislike Muslims as people and how any talk of it is inherently hostile.
The problem is that you're not trying to uncover the baddies. Your entire stance is that Islam = bad and therefore Muslims are bad. There might be good ones but how do we go about identifying them?
The first response in the thread is a good summary of what you've spent countless hours doing.
The first response in the thread is a good summary of what you've spent countless hours doing.
pork911 said:
Similarly, how do we identify law abiding citizens so that we may then identify and tackle criminals or those that may become criminals? Perhaps everyone should be assumed to be criminals until they prove they are not, but since they might pass the test today but later change maybe internment for everybody is the answer?
Ridley said:
The problem is that you're not trying to uncover the baddies. Your entire stance is that Islam = bad and therefore Muslims are bad. There might be good ones but how do we go about identifying them?
That's pretty much the size of it. Though I also went to some length on this and other threads to explain exactly why I think Islam is 'bad' (a bit simplistic, but the cap fits).AJS- said:
Ridley said:
The problem is that you're not trying to uncover the baddies. Your entire stance is that Islam = bad and therefore Muslims are bad. There might be good ones but how do we go about identifying them?
That's pretty much the size of it. Though I also went to some length on this and other threads to explain exactly why I think Islam is 'bad' (a bit simplistic, but the cap fits).e21Mark said:
I think the media are absolutely instrumental is the stirring of hate and division.
And it seems many people agree with you. See the results of a recent poll done across several countries only last week.http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/feb/...
AJS- said:
Not really. It's the ideology I have a problem with, not the people. I think I've been pretty clear about that.
You cant seriously believe that is a get out of jail free card do you?Me racist? Noooo. Ive been quite clear. I have nothing against black people it's just their stupid hair with the tiny curls. It's the hair not the people. You cant be racist against hair.
Me racist? Noooo waaaay. I've nothing against Asian people. It's just the curry smell. The smell see? Not the people.
Me bigoted against scousers? No way. Its just that stupid accent grates at my very core and makes me feel physically ill. Its the accents not the people.
etc etc
I can't seriously believe you're still banging that pathetic drum.
Even if I am just a massive racist and my actual motivation is that I dislike all brown/black/yellow/white people who are Muslim because they're brown/black/yellow/white, am I wrong about the nature of Islam or the threat that it currently poses?
Even if I am just a massive racist and my actual motivation is that I dislike all brown/black/yellow/white people who are Muslim because they're brown/black/yellow/white, am I wrong about the nature of Islam or the threat that it currently poses?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff