Tony Martin held in relation to illegal firearms possession

[eharding]

V6Pushfit said:

What I have said is fact.

I would assert that it isn't - and that either you're a pitiful fantasist, or you're a gullible tool of some other pitiful fantasist.

[FredClogs]

eharding said:

V6Pushfit said:

Not that I'm aware of, it was last August since when he's had a breakdown and a suicide attempt. Plod haven't put effort into it and makes me wonder how much of this gets swept under the carpet. Can't go into detail but there weren't many that knew he had the cash and he's the sort that drives a battered polo so you wouldn't guess.

Call me cynical, but on the face of it I'd say that either you and/or your mate is full of...er...crepe.

£100K+ in cash stolen by a gang posing as police officers armed with sledge-hammers, the police (the real ones) haven't put any effort into the case. and not a peep in the media?

I'm calling custard on this one.

I'm no burglarist or Charles Bronson type but for £100k I'd take on a guy with a sledgehammer, good for getting through a door but unless you're that guy out the avengers possibly the worst weapon ever for close quarters scrapping.

[Lucas CAV]

V6Pushfit said:

Greg66 said:

If the point was " you're a lying dick who likes to pretend he inhabits a shady demi-monde of edgy geezers, but who doesn't have the imagination to carry the lie further than a story that ends with a rich bloke driving a Polo who shaves his legs", then yes, the point has been proved. Right there.

In that case you're a narrow minded and on a number of levels a total
What I have said is fact. Simple. Either take it in board or off back to play with your train set.

So give us more details - there's no way something like that would've stayed out of the press

[Halb]

Mt brother's friend was the victim of a home attack. Terrible ordeal, has left him with emotional scars. It was a brutal thing, they tortured him and left him for dead. It was on Crimewatch a while later. I don't know if they caught them. Bunch of ultra violent East Europeans.

[eharding]

FredClogs said:

I'm no burglarist or Charles Bronson type but for £100k I'd take on a guy with a sledgehammer, good for getting through a door but unless you're that guy out the avengers possibly the worst weapon ever for close quarters scrapping.

I'd be willing to make a small bet that V6PushFit also has a close confidant who has been threatened in his own home by villains using sawn-off 12-inch calibre naval guns, noted for their general lethality at point-blank range to operator and target alike, and use that as a justification for householders to be generally equipped with sawn-off naval guns of at least 16-inch calibre, just in case.

[anonymous-user]

V6Pushfit said:

Greg66 said:

If the point was " you're a lying dick who likes to pretend he inhabits a shady demi-monde of edgy geezers, but who doesn't have the imagination to carry the lie further than a story that ends with a rich bloke driving a Polo who shaves his legs", then yes, the point has been proved. Right there.

In that case you're a narrow minded and on a number of levels a total
What I have said is fact. Simple. Either take it in board or off back to play with your train set.

So still no details.

Go peddle your bullst fantasies somewhere else, little man.

[anonymous-user]

Lucas CAV said:

So give us more details - there's no way something like that would've stayed out of the press

It has though and I can't go into more detail. The poor guy I've known him for 20 years and he's had a somewhat parallel lifestyle but to a point honest with it. It was partly an inheritance and as I said its really cocked him up big time.

That's it I'm afraid - I was just using it to illustrate what can happen and in this case the result of an unguarded conversation.

Edit: I'm really not interested in having to 'prove' to the likes of idiots, gregg66 I presume craves some sort reflected notoriety beyond his penny black. This isn't like that. It's a sorry story of what has happened and the destruction resulting from what is known as a home invasion. The sum was well over 100k so it can only be imagined how anyone on here would feel in that position and wether they would use an unlicensed firearm if available, which in this case wasn't so couldn't.

Edited by V6Pushfit on Sunday 3rd January 23:03

[Lucas CAV]

V6Pushfit said:

Lucas CAV said:

So give us more details - there's no way something like that would've stayed out of the press

It has though and I can't go into more detail. The poor guy I've known him for 20 years and he's had a somewhat parallel lifestyle but to a point honest with it. It was partly an inheritance and as I said its really cocked him up big time.

That's it I'm afraid - I was just using it to illustrate what can happen and in this case the result of an unguarded conversation.

So what is the "comfort zone" all about then?

[anonymous-user]

Greg66 said:

So still no details.

Go peddle your bullst fantasies somewhere else, little man.

Oh yes naturally I'll put all the details on here for you to pick apart just because you can't take on board the information I have given. Anything scary happened to you last year - parking ticket maybe? Or afraid to admit as it caused a meltdown?

[AW111]

I have done a quick search, and found a home invasion by fake police, but no sledgehammers.

If the sledgehammer story is true, all we need is a county and year to confirm it.


I don't have a comfort zone, btw, but I do have some dodgy friends - does that make me special?

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

La Liga said:

ggravated burglaries have the highest detection rate of any burglaries. There were 1337 in 2013 with just over 1 in 3 detected / solved.

You've been warned about coming on these threads with facts and stuff. I mean, it's not as if anyone takes any notice.

I know, they're very boring.

eharding said:

by villains using sawn-off 12-inch calibre naval guns, noted for their general lethality at point-blank range to operator and target alike

[popeyewhite]

birdcage said:

Isn't his land worth millions?

Land and house £3 million. Certainly not beyond the realms of possibility for some thick ne'er-do-wells to go knocking on his door looking for some of it. I'm sure if it happens again Mr Martin could easily reach the gun the police couldn't find.

[Transmitter Man]

Greg66 said:

He keeps six figure sums, in cash, in his home.

Hmm. Just hmm.

Greg,

You would be surprised I'm sure at how many people keep wads under the bed for a variety of reasons but mainly to avoid tax of course by putting it through the banking system.

An old acquaintance of mine ran several night-clubs in the north years ago and comfortably took this amount at the door/bar over a normal weekend.

At the time the Channel Islands came in handy!

Times have changed.

Phil

[anonymous-user]

^ I would add that I had £7500 taken in 2014, the proceeds of a car sale. IMHO it was one of two people that are the only ones who had keys etc, either that or they provided info for someone else to do it. Non English speaking they had an interpreter at the bib interview and got through it so no charges and trail died.
That crime didn't get reported or listed anywhere in the papers or on bib web.

[Greendubber]

V6Pushfit said:

^ I would add that I had £7500 taken in 2014, the proceeds of a car sale. IMHO it was one of two people that are the only ones who had keys etc, either that or they provided info for someone else to do it. Non English speaking they had an interpreter at the bib interview and got through it so no charges and trail died.
That crime didn't get reported or listed anywhere in the papers or on bib web.

It wont as its not a significant amount of money, granted it is to you but its not high enough to warrant a press release.

[Murph7355]

La Liga said:

ggravated burglaries have the highest detection rate of any burglaries. There were 1337 in 2013 with just over 1 in 3 detected / solved.

25 per week with only 33% of them going punished (do you have info on typical sentences?).

Stats like that don't make me feel better about this sort of crime. That's not a dig at the Police as I'm sure solving any crime is difficult and resources are stretched. But I would bet stats like that are far from a deterrent to the scrote community...

[ATG]

rb5er said:

bhstewie said:

Seriously that's where we're at now?

You don't agree with revenge so you're a "pacifist pussy"?

You`d rather they were "arrested" and then taken to court a few months later then asked to pay £5 a month which they don`t pay and then go and do it to someone else rather than to be taught a lesson? This having cost taxpayers plenty and nobody feeling any better over it and never breaks the cycle.

This is why the country has gone tits up and this sort of thing is quite regular. No proper punishments. A good hiding used to stop this sort of recurrence.

The sort of scum that beats people up and robs them wont stop until worse is done to themselves. Perhaps then they learn to appreciate that its a stty thing to do.

The country hasn't gone tits up. You, along with a lot of other people, seem to want to believe that, but that says much more about you than it says about the country. I imagine it's because the country continues to change at a hell of a pace (just as it has always done) and you find that unnerving because it means you can't really know what the future holds for you and your family with any great certainty. Boo hoo. It was always thus. The are better ways to deal with it than believing in a fairy tale past where things were just somehow better. Frankly it's nothing short of moral cowardice. It is feeble. Grow some balls. Put your prejudice aside and look at the world square on.

[oyster]

ukkid35 said:

La Liga said:

AJL308 said:

La Liga said:

he original matter involving Martin was certainly one which divided opinion. The law has actually changed to allow home owners to use greater force than in any other circumstances. I would still expect Martin to fall foul of it.

The law hasn't changed. There was lots of talk of it but nothing of significance has ever nbeen enacted.

CPS said:

Subsection (5A) allows householders to use disproportionate force when defending themselves against intruders into the home. The provision came into force on 25 April 2013 and applies to cases where the alleged force was used after that date. The provision does not apply restrospectively. It provides that where the case is one involving a householder (please see the section below for further details) the degree of force used by the householder is not to be regarded as having been reasonable in the circumstances as the householder believed them to be if it was grossly disproportionate. A householder will therefore be able to use force which is disproportionate but not grossly disporportionate.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#rachel

Some time before 2013 I caught a burglar in my house, or rather I caught his leg as it was exiting the toilet window. He remained 'in my custody' for awhile as my GF called the BiB who turned up in surprising numbers very swiftly.

It did occur to me while I had his leg in my grasp that if I'd let go, and he had fallen from the first floor to the paved ground below and broken his back whether my legal position might have become as bad as his physical situation. Fortunately for both of us that was never tested.

Edited by ukkid35 on Friday 1st January 01:46

A householder who didn't castrate a burglar?

And police arriving quickly?


You should leave PH soon before the mouth frothers here drown in their own dribbled bile.

[anonymous-user]

Re: the above, if an offender is detained then it requires the highest grade response by the police, in which the base measurement is arriving in fewer than 10 minutes (in urban / semi-urban areas). Police responses generally aren't some discretionary matter. They are quite rigidly dictated by a set of rules covering all incidents they can attend to.

Murph7355 said:

La Liga said:

ggravated burglaries have the highest detection rate of any burglaries. There were 1337 in 2013 with just over 1 in 3 detected / solved.

25 per week with only 33% of them going punished (do you have info on typical sentences?).

Stats like that don't make me feel better about this sort of crime. That's not a dig at the Police as I'm sure solving any crime is difficult and resources are stretched. But I would bet stats like that are far from a deterrent to the scrote community...

An aggravated burglary should always result in a custodial sentence. It's a life sentence crime, but in reality it ranges from 1-13 years' custody depending on the severity.

Some things need considering. One is there aren't going to be 1337 unique offenders. A lot will be repeat so with a 1 in 3 outcome there's a good chance there'll be caught from a purely statistical point of view.

The second is 1 in 3 is quite high given that in order to get a detection, the police need to have gathered sufficient evidence for there to be a realistic prospect of conviction aiming to prove the matter beyond reasonable doubt.

The third is splitting the offences into criminal vs, if I can put it crudely, criminal vs decent person. A lot of criminals will burgle other drug dealers and carry out attacks which are burglaries. The definition extends beyond breaking in and stealing. Entering as a trespasser and causing GBH is a burglary (entering with a weapon / firearm and a couple of others) makes the offence aggravated. The point here is that the decent, law abiding people aren't going to be subject to these sorts of burglaries.

Following on from that, criminal victims rarely, if ever, help the police or tell them anything so there's never going to be a chance to detect the matter, yet the police will still record it.

What I am trying to say is that like a lot of crime, the risk of being a victim will depend on lifestyle, much like being the victim of a knife / gun crime. The 1 in 3 is the 'base rate' for burglary detection, but for non-criminal victims the detection rate may be 2 / 3, whereas the detection rate for criminal victims may be 1 / 3, or whatever speculative permutations we can imagine.

[AJS-]

For that reason I would rather the sentencing reflected the unsolved crimes. Not punishing people for what they haven't done exactly but recognising that their activities are part of a much wider problem and not simply an isolated outburst.

I would also hazard a guess that while approximately 1/3 get caught a fair chunk of them are the drugged up opportunists going after a quick buck while there is a hardcore who are good at it and get caught far less. All the more reason to make sure they get a stiff sentence when they are caught. I can't see any possible reason why any burglar would get a sentence of 1 year but if that was 5 - 30 years it would start to look a bit more like it to me.

I suspect that if you took 10% permanently out of circulation you would see a disproportionate drop in this sort of crime as the most active crooks would be locked up and those tempted to tag along or tip them off would either not have the opportunity or would have a far stronger disincentive to do so.