Can we talk about Germany for a bit?

[Trabi601]

Interesting country, Germany.

This week, I've been in Bad Harzburg, Dresden, then over to Prague, Vienna and am now in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

There are a lot of immigrants in Garmisch. But they're well integrated, running bars, hotels, restaurants. There are lots of 'Arabic' adverts and signs around - I have no idea where they're from, but will assume Turkey, Syria and Iran. They natively speak German and are, to all intents and purposes, German citizens. (the same is repeated in many other towns - Dresen included, but particularly former West German towns - the East is still in a funny place, where a lot of the youth migrated West, leaving lots of pensioners and a number of immigrants).

I'd point out that the place I felt least safe was Prague. That was the one place I kept my wallet, camera and phone very close!

Dresden really stood out as it's the first place I've ever experienced a Red Cross refugee camp. It was in a secure compound, but it was also a very visible demonstration that Germany takes its place in the world very seriously. And I applaud them for what they are doing.

Sadly, there is still a very unpleasant far right movement in Germany and I do worry the current stresses will push the general population in that direction. I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

[Murph7355]

Trabi601 said:

...
Sadly, there is still a very unpleasant far right movement in Germany and I do worry the current stresses will push the general population in that direction. I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

The EU leaders need to understand that unless they radically change approach, the lurch to the right is going to happen. And not just in Germany.

[danllama]

Trabi601 said:

Interesting country, Germany.

I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

It's not the lurch to the far right that is ruining them. It's the CAUSE of that lurching that will potentially ruin them.

[MrBrightSi]

A note on terminology: The BBC uses the term migrant to refer to all people on the move who have yet to complete the legal process of claiming asylum. This group includes people fleeing war-torn countries such as Syria, who are likely to be granted refugee status, as well as people who are seeking jobs and better lives, who governments are likely to rule are economic migrants.


The BBC is just such a pathetic website, we pay money for this newspeak.

I love Saxony, lived there for 3 months last year, just got home from a 6 week road trip back to see friends there. The people are kind, generous and almost like 20 years behind in all the idiocy you find in the West of Germany.

Walking through Chemnitz or Leipzig and seeing the beautiful architecture or enjoying some serious good icecream isn't so fun when you've got groups of young men who've already caused a load of problems in the centres of these cities.

Not having German guilt makes these situations baffling, the cognitive dissonance of some of the touchy feely people in that country doesn't make any sense. Yes we're turning into a police state, but aside from some decent down to earth people who are going for the AfD or have took great risks to march with PEGIDA, the country is mental and it's been brought on itself not just through Merkel.

Anyone who buys into the "Right wing/neo-nazis" bullst needs to shake their head. The biggest threat to your safety and the countries safety right now is ANTIFA who are the true face of fascism or large groups of young migrant men who have been responsible for some pretty deplorable crimes, from theft to assault to rape.

[jshell]

Murph7355 said:

The EU leaders need to understand that unless they radically change approach, the lurch to the right is going to happen. And not just in Germany.

Sage.

[scherzkeks]

Trabi601 said:

Interesting country, Germany.

This week, I've been in Bad Harzburg, Dresden, then over to Prague, Vienna and am now in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

There are a lot of immigrants in Garmisch. But they're well integrated, running bars, hotels, restaurants. There are lots of 'Arabic' adverts and signs around - I have no idea where they're from, but will assume Turkey, Syria and Iran. They natively speak German and are, to all intents and purposes, German citizens. (the same is repeated in many other towns - Dresen included, but particularly former West German towns - the East is still in a funny place, where a lot of the youth migrated West, leaving lots of pensioners and a number of immigrants).

I'd point out that the place I felt least safe was Prague. That was the one place I kept my wallet, camera and phone very close!

Dresden really stood out as it's the first place I've ever experienced a Red Cross refugee camp. It was in a secure compound, but it was also a very visible demonstration that Germany takes its place in the world very seriously. And I applaud them for what they are doing.

Sadly, there is still a very unpleasant far right movement in Germany and I do worry the current stresses will push the general population in that direction. I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

It is quite unlikely. The areas where the majority of right-wing unrest is taking place have always had problems of this sort. Broadly speaking, Germany is a very tolerant society. And a very educated and aware one. Your comment on the Red Cross camp is very insightful.

[irocfan]

Trabi601 said:

I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

and another one here

[StottyEvo]

jshell said:

Murph7355 said:

The EU leaders need to understand that unless they radically change approach, the lurch to the right is going to happen. And not just in Germany.

Sage.

I was discussing this with my brother last night. I really hope the far right votes work successfully as protest votes and doesn't result in one of the far right nutters getting into power.

[FiF]

Well Merkel wishes she could turn the clock back and now distances herself from the slogan "We can do it" which was the rallying cry at the height of the crisis. Acknowledges the effect (control) afforded by the closure of the Balkan land route and unusually candid was the claim that a "balance was needed between humanitarian responsibility and the limits of the country's capacity. Everyone knew that African refugees were primarily economic migrants and we don't want that. "

Wow just wow. Considering she was one of the highest cruyics of the reticence of other batiks and in particular anything which stood in the way of free movement


Handelsblatt English version

[Norfolkit]

FiF said:

Well Merkel wishes she could turn the clock back and now distances herself from the slogan "We can do it" which was the rallying cry at the height of the crisis. Acknowledges the effect (control) afforded by the closure of the Balkan land route and unusually candid was the claim that a "balance was needed between humanitarian responsibility and the limits of the country's capacity. Everyone knew that African refugees were primarily economic migrants and we don't want that. "

Wow just wow. Considering she was one of the highest cruyics of the reticence of other batiks and in particular anything which stood in the way of free movement


Handelsblatt English version

Politicians ONLY EVER take notice of public opinion when they get kicked in the ballot box. She's no different. Had the recent election results been different would she have had a change of heart, I doubt it.

[Trabi601]

BIANCO said:

irocfan said:

Trabi601 said:

I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

and another one here

Instead they are ruining it by allowing millions of intolerant Muslims who make the right look like tree hugging softies.
Why can't people see that many who are classed at right wing are the ones you are trying to protect there liberal societies.

There aren't 'millions of intolerant Muslims'. There are a very small percentage of nutters, as with any ethnic or religious group. The overwhelming majority appreciate the integrated and tolerant society in which they live.

Remember, Germany has a long history of Turkish immigration - both Christian and Muslim. They are a great example of cultural integration - Germany even prides itself on being one of the best countries in Europe in which to get a 'kebap'.

[del mar]

Trabi601 said:

Interesting country, Germany.

This week, I've been in Bad Harzburg, Dresden, then over to Prague, Vienna and am now in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

There are a lot of immigrants in Garmisch. But they're well integrated, running bars, hotels, restaurants. There are lots of 'Arabic' adverts and signs around - I have no idea where they're from, but will assume Turkey, Syria and Iran. They natively speak German and are, to all intents and purposes, German citizens. (the same is repeated in many other towns - Dresen included, but particularly former West German towns - the East is still in a funny place, where a lot of the youth migrated West, leaving lots of pensioners and a number of immigrants).

I'd point out that the place I felt least safe was Prague. That was the one place I kept my wallet, camera and phone very close!

Dresden really stood out as it's the first place I've ever experienced a Red Cross refugee camp. It was in a secure compound, but it was also a very visible demonstration that Germany takes its place in the world very seriously. And I applaud them for what they are doing.

Sadly, there is still a very unpleasant far right movement in Germany and I do worry the current stresses will push the general population in that direction. I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

We went to Garmisch in August and then up the Zugspitze €116 for a family of 3 on a cable car !

Even the left wing social worker from up north that I went with was shocked. I have never seen so many veils and headscarves - and I travel through Tower Hamlets everyday. None of them tried to blow me up and no man tried to rape my wife, but it was astonishing.

[Trabi601]

del mar said:

We went to Garmisch in August and then up the Zugspitze €116 for a family of 3 on a cable car !

Even the left wing social worker from up north that I went with was shocked. I have never seen so many veils and headscarves - and I travel through Tower Hamlets everyday. None of them tried to blow me up and no man tried to rape my wife, but it was astonishing.

The prices are silly... but seriously, don't be so over-dramatic!

I've seen a number of head-scarves, but not a single veil. It's all very integrated and tolerant, as it should be - as I've posted before, the Turks and Germans have a long history!

The real menace in Garmisch are the bloody Americans!

[anonymous-user]

Trabi601 said:

BIANCO said:

irocfan said:

Trabi601 said:

I love Germany and Austria and wouldn't like their liberal and tolerant societies to be ruined by a lurch to the far right.

and another one here

Instead they are ruining it by allowing millions of intolerant Muslims who make the right look like tree hugging softies.
Why can't people see that many who are classed at right wing are the ones you are trying to protect there liberal societies.

There aren't 'millions of intolerant Muslims'. There are a very small percentage of nutters, as with any ethnic or religious group. The overwhelming majority appreciate the integrated and tolerant society in which they live.

Remember, Germany has a long history of Turkish immigration - both Christian and Muslim. They are a great example of cultural integration - Germany even prides itself on being one of the best countries in Europe in which to get a 'kebap'.

ABout half of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, are these European muslims a more tolerant liberal branch?

[rb5er]

Its called denial.

[Trabi601]

wsurfa said:

ABout half of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, are these European muslims a more tolerant liberal branch?

You'd get a similar result if you conducted a poll on a UK 'social housing' estate - if not even more biased to illegality.

So, your point is?

[anonymous-user]

Trabi601 said:

You'd get a similar result if you conducted a poll on a UK 'social housing' estate - if not even more biased to illegality.

So, your point is?

That clearly you have no defence for that rate being about 1000% of that of the general population.

Or that you think that both 'social housing' occupants and muslims are dangerously intolerant.

[Trabi601]

wsurfa said:

Trabi601 said:

You'd get a similar result if you conducted a poll on a UK 'social housing' estate - if not even more biased to illegality.

So, your point is?

That clearly you have no defence for that rate being about 1000% of that of the general population.

Or that you think that both 'social housing' occupants and muslims are dangerously intolerant.

Well, if you also add in the Catholic church, then you have an example of minority groups not approving of other minority groups!

I'm actually surprised that a religious group has such a tolerance of homosexuality! - religion generally has a low tolerance level for it.

[anonymous-user]

Trabi601 said:

wsurfa said:

Trabi601 said:

You'd get a similar result if you conducted a poll on a UK 'social housing' estate - if not even more biased to illegality.

So, your point is?

That clearly you have no defence for that rate being about 1000% of that of the general population.

Or that you think that both 'social housing' occupants and muslims are dangerously intolerant.

Well, if you also add in the Catholic church, then you have an example of minority groups not approving of other minority groups!

I'm actually surprised that a religious group has such a tolerance of homosexuality! - religion generally has a low tolerance level for it.

So they do have a tolerance issue, good to know. Perhaps the 'wife should always obey the husband' is also a tolerance issue?

As an aside, have the catholic church been throwing many gays from buildings recently?

Or do you want to run away into a pointless parallel again?

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 20th September 23:35

[Blue Oval84]

Trabi601 said:

You'd get a similar result if you conducted a poll on a UK 'social housing' estate - if not even more biased to illegality.

So, your point is?

Not convinced of that, many of my gay friends grew up in UK council estates and had pretty much no problems at all.

I think the point is that the research showing over half think it should be illegal was done across a broad range of the relevant society. UK society as a whole does not share that view to the best of my knowledge.