Can we talk about Germany for a bit?
Discussion
irocfan said:
I don't understand - now that Merkel is all for banning the burka does that mean she racist and sexist?
Nah, she's just been reading NP&E.The world has finally realised that all the utter nonsense from the liberal left of the last twenty years on open doors and multi-culturalism is utter drivel. Fine have immigrants, but people know there's a need for management and integration.
Digga said:
Nah, she's just been reading NP&E.
The world has finally realised that all the utter nonsense from the liberal left of the last twenty years on open doors and multi-culturalism is utter drivel. Fine have immigrants, but people know there's a need for management and integration.
Multiculturalism and integration are not mutually exclusive. As for banning the Burka, it is ridiculous. What we should be concerned about are individuals committing crimes or consipring to commit crimes. The world has finally realised that all the utter nonsense from the liberal left of the last twenty years on open doors and multi-culturalism is utter drivel. Fine have immigrants, but people know there's a need for management and integration.
Banning forms of dress is not the mark of a free society.
Driving home late last night, I had to laugh out loud when I heard the quote from Mrs Merkel's speech that the unplanned influx into Germany of hundreds of thousands of immigrants was....
"A great success, that must not be repeated"
You have to admire her for keeping a straight face as she said it
"A great success, that must not be repeated"
You have to admire her for keeping a straight face as she said it
scherzkeks said:
Multiculturalism and integration are not mutually exclusive.
Not sure I agree with this. I don't care about someone's ethnicity, race, religion or sexuality. But a common culture with similar, shared values is the 'glue' that binds society together. A society with 'multi-cultures' quickly becomes fractured and inharmonious. This is the situation that modern Britain faces now. rovermorris999 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Yeah, the Christians are determined to see women treated as equals. If only secular laws would stop slowing their progress down.
Typical PH. I never mentioned Christians as being wonderful. Merely that most of the basic tenets, not killing, stealing etc, are not bad rules by which to live. That's all.You still have to use some externally-acquired morality to tell one from the other.
Gargamel said:
SpeckledJim said:
Yeah, the Christians are determined to see women treated as equals. If only secular laws would stop slowing their progress down.
Hmm not sure what your point is here, The Church of England has Female Priests and Bishops ? I don't think you could say modern Christianity has a huge problem with equality. And that's before we get on to their persecution of the institution of gay marriage. Delicious tea and cakes aside, they aren't a terrific bunch when it comes to tolerance.
scherzkeks said:
Banning forms of dress is not the mark of a free society.
I agree wholeheartedly, banning an item of clothing, unless for security purposes, is a ridiculous ideaI'm not a fan of the burka, I think people should be persuaded/encourage not to wear them and especially protected from being forced to wear one.
I'm still struggling to accept that Merkel said this. It's quite a right wing statement.
StottyEvo said:
scherzkeks said:
Banning forms of dress is not the mark of a free society.
I agree wholeheartedly, banning an item of clothing, unless for security purposes, is a ridiculous ideaI'm not a fan of the burka, I think people should be persuaded/encourage not to wear them and especially protected from being forced to wear one.
I'm still struggling to accept that Merkel said this. It's quite a right wing statement.
Lunar Tick said:
scherzkeks said:
Multiculturalism and integration are not mutually exclusive.
Not sure I agree with this. I don't care about someone's ethnicity, race, religion or sexuality. But a common culture with similar, shared values is the 'glue' that binds society together. A society with 'multi-cultures' quickly becomes fractured and inharmonious. This is the situation that modern Britain faces now. Lunar Tick said:
scherzkeks said:
Multiculturalism and integration are not mutually exclusive.
Not sure I agree with this. I don't care about someone's ethnicity, race, religion or sexuality. But a common culture with similar, shared values is the 'glue' that binds society together. A society with 'multi-cultures' quickly becomes fractured and inharmonious. This is the situation that modern Britain faces now. I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
scherzkeks said:
I come from the US, which is the definition of a melting pot. We have many cultural groups who have managed to maintain a sense of individuality while also sharing common American values.
I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
With respect, the US is not a example of integration. Sure, there are many pockets of it, mainly the affluent and populous urban centres, but the nation as a whole is not.I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
Digga said:
scherzkeks said:
I come from the US, which is the definition of a melting pot. We have many cultural groups who have managed to maintain a sense of individuality while also sharing common American values.
I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
With respect, the US is not a example of integration. Sure, there are many pockets of it, mainly the affluent and populous urban centres, but the nation as a whole is not.I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
scherzkeks said:
I come from the US, which is the definition of a melting pot. We have many cultural groups who have managed to maintain a sense of individuality while also sharing common American values.
I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
The problem is that the latest generation, of muslims in particular in certain parts of the country, are less integrated than their parents or grand parents were. Integration is not happening over time.I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
scherzkeks said:
Digga said:
scherzkeks said:
I come from the US, which is the definition of a melting pot. We have many cultural groups who have managed to maintain a sense of individuality while also sharing common American values.
I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
With respect, the US is not a example of integration. Sure, there are many pockets of it, mainly the affluent and populous urban centres, but the nation as a whole is not.I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
Digga said:
scherzkeks said:
Digga said:
scherzkeks said:
I come from the US, which is the definition of a melting pot. We have many cultural groups who have managed to maintain a sense of individuality while also sharing common American values.
I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
With respect, the US is not a example of integration. Sure, there are many pockets of it, mainly the affluent and populous urban centres, but the nation as a whole is not.I live in Germany now and it isn't much different; it takes time for integration to occur.
And in places where immigrants did not tend to go, we have insular pockets. Logic stands to reason that were these areas to experience an influx of immigrants, with time, those imigrants would integrate and the locations would become both multicultural and integrated, like many of our large and medium-sized cities. And really no different than here in Germany either.
scherzkeks said:
In other words, the places immigrants flocked to (major cities) are racially and culturally diverse, and after several generations, are fully integrated in terms of the general criteria by which we define ourselves as Americans.
And in places where immigrants did not tend to go, we have insular pockets. Logic stands to reason that were these areas to experience an influx of immigrants, with time, those imigrants would integrate and the locations would become both multicultural and integrated, like many of our large and medium-sized cities. And really no different than here in Germany either.
Not exactly. There are highly integrated places where everyone gels and gets along, and then there are places where there's diversity without integration - ghettos.And in places where immigrants did not tend to go, we have insular pockets. Logic stands to reason that were these areas to experience an influx of immigrants, with time, those imigrants would integrate and the locations would become both multicultural and integrated, like many of our large and medium-sized cities. And really no different than here in Germany either.
Complex factors and influences I think.
Camoradi said:
Driving home late last night, I had to laugh out loud when I heard the quote from Mrs Merkel's speech that the unplanned influx into Germany of hundreds of thousands of immigrants was....
"A great success, that must not be repeated"
You have to admire her for keeping a straight face as she said it
"A great success, that must not be repeated"
You have to admire her for keeping a straight face as she said it
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