Can we talk about Germany for a bit?

[irocfan]

Budflicker said:

Budflicker said:

or selectively quoted parts of your post he can reign all liberally high and mighty over

scherzkeks said:

irocfan said:

Now I'm willing to say that the majority of those are likely upstanding people

Oooh, are we getting somewhere now?

irocfan said:

- but as upstanding people they need to start turfing out the ne'er do wells which does not appear to be happening and again bespeaks of a lack of respect for the host country

Oh, I guess not.

So, when are you going to openly protest rape culture? It has been around long before the brown people arrived, and I have no choice but to interpret your lack of open, public activism to mean you do not respect women.

Told you...

ok budf - looks like you're right it's another jjlynn I mean to me it's self evident that if I knew someone was wanted for sexual assault (or indeed any number of other crimes) I'd dob them in. It seems like the great and good jjwannabe can't quite grasp that concept which allows him to wallow in has fake sense of self worth "... oh please all look at me and how good I am..." The sad thing is that that majority are thinking somewhat differently to how he would like to imagine

[Hugo a Gogo]

it's amazing how angry some of you are getting about something many of you don't know much about, in a country you don't live in

[JagLover]

Hugo a Gogo said:

it's amazing how angry some of you are getting about something many of you don't know much about, in a country you don't live in

Well put

It is not as if we are all part of a community of nations the citizens of which can live wherever they wish within that community.....oh wait.

Leaving aside that argument, and even with us leaving the EU, future civil strife in places like Germany and Sweden are likely to have far more impact on us than conflicts much further away.

[Jinx]

Hugo a Gogo said:

it's amazing how angry some of you are getting about something many of you don't know much about, in a country you don't live in

So assault and murder are things not to get angry about just because it is in a country we don't live in? Then why should we be bothered about helping these people escape Syria? Heck it's in a country we don't live in.

[AJS-]

Not to mention the fact that half of our politicians and most of our media seem to be looking enviously at how enlightened and compassionate Merkel has been and want dearly to emulate that in Britain.

[irocfan]

Hugo a Gogo said:

it's amazing how angry some of you are getting about something many of you don't know much about, in a country you don't live in

correct Hugo - I don't live there, however I do have immediate family there and am toying with the idea of buying a place out there.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Jinx said:

So assault and murder...

but you're picky about which precise assaults and murders upset you

and the UK has a much higher rate of violent crime and murder than Germany irocfan, you may want to make that move as soon as you can

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 26th January 18:30

[don'tbesilly]

Hugo a Gogo said:

it's amazing how angry some of you are getting about something many of you don't know much about, in a country you don't live in

How much more do you think we need to know?
Is there something other than whats reported on a daily basis that would/could change the opinions of a lot of people, not only those who post on PH, but on a much wider basis.

Do you think that what's happening in Germany/France/Sweden/other Nordic countries/ a large swathe of Europe couldn't/won't happen here in the UK?

I'd welcome your reassurance that the UK is safe, you clearly think that those who show concern about the situation in Germany and the rest of Europe are deluded, and you're opinion is the only one with any credence.

[Hugo a Gogo]

you're right, we're all doomed

doomed I tell ya!

[don'tbesilly]

Hugo a Gogo said:

you're right, we're all doomed

doomed I tell ya!

Well reasoned response from someone without a cogent answer.

[Hugo a Gogo]

what do you want for a cogent answer? It's a hyped up story

a whole bunch of dodgy pickpockets and assorted illegally resident crims from over Europe are now pretending to be Asylum seekers, and are taking advantage of the real refugee situation

it's not the end of civilisation, it's not the islamification of Europe, it's the latest Daily Mail et al topic now that Grexit doesn't sell papers any more

[andymadmak]

Hugo a Gogo said:

what do you want for a cogent answer? It's a hyped up story

a whole bunch of dodgy pickpockets and assorted illegally resident crims from over Europe are now pretending to be Asylum seekers, and are taking advantage of the real refugee situation

it's not the end of civilisation, it's not the islamification of Europe, it's the latest Daily Mail et al topic now that Grexit doesn't sell papers any more

Fine in theory...right up to the point that you compare your description of the perpatrators - "dodgy pickpockets and assorted illegally resident crims from (all?) over Europe, pretending to be Asylum seekers, with the descriptions given by the overwhelming majority of the victims .. Namely that the perpatrators were North African or Arab in appearance. And then there is the sticky question of who has been arrested for the crimes ( eventually, after frantic attempts by the authorities to downplay / ignore the crimes) and there you find people who mostly fit the victims descriptions, and not yours.
Unless you are suggesting that the perpatrators were drawn from the cadre of earlier waves of migrants ( hence their appearance and languages used) rather than the latest influx? In which case I am not sure that that helps the " nothing to see here" case one jot!

[Hugo a Gogo]

sorry, yes, earlier migrants who've been living in Europe for a while, as well as current migrants who aren't refugees

illegals, but what are you going to do, other than round up all brown people (that just leaves Albanians etc I suppose)

[andymadmak]

Hugo a Gogo said:

sorry, yes, earlier migrants who've been living in Europe for a while, as well as current migrants who aren't refugees

illegals, but what are you going to do, other than round up all brown people (that just leaves Albanians etc I suppose)

Well, maybe the start of the answer is to not let any more in, unless they have come through the official UN refugee camps in the countries bordering their own?
Then maybe a no tolerance approach to law breaking by those migrants who are already here. One strike and you're out should encourage better behaviour.
And in the future perhaps Mrs Merkel could consult her EU colleagues before inviting a million people to come and then deciding that she needs the rest of the EUs help to sort out the mess she has caused.
Lastly it might be a good idea if those people who think that their view of "come one,come all" should prevail in the face of all evidence to the contrary, would stop branding those who don't agree with them as racists, fascists or whatever insult of the day is applicable. Seeking to quash debate in that way is only going to make the whole situation worse, and may result in the emergence of a Trump like figure in Europe who will claim to speak for the silent majority, a silent majority that knows it is not racist to be concerned about the influx of millions of people who in many cases don't understand or respect western values.

[Hugo a Gogo]

one strike and you're out where exactly?

if you don't know where they came from, if the countries they may be from won't take them back?

I certainly think there should be no 'going easy' on petty crime (or not so petty) from asylum seekers, as has been suggested

but I don't see that crime from an illegal immigrant is worse than from someone born on the right side, and I don't see it as a reason to damn all the others who share an appearance, a place of birth, or a religion

[irocfan]

Hugo a Gogo said:

sorry, yes, earlier migrants who've been living in Europe for a while, as well as current migrants who aren't refugees

illegals, but what are you going to do, other than round up all brown people (that just leaves Albanians etc I suppose)

and herein lies the tale - it has been said a lot of times on here and other threads there people don't have an issue with refugees, what they do have an issue with is economic migrants (and I am glad that you do seem to indicate that there is a distinction). The extent to which Merkel has knobbed up is staggering with some EU/UN predictions saying that even more migrants will be on their way this year, with (I hope!!) alarmist figures of 10million being bandied around....

[andymadmak]

Hugo a Gogo said:

one strike and you're out where exactly?

if you don't know where they came from, if the countries they may be from won't take them back?

I certainly think there should be no 'going easy' on petty crime (or not so petty) from asylum seekers, as has been suggested

but I don't see that crime from an illegal immigrant is worse than from someone born on the right side, and I don't see it as a reason to damn all the others who share an appearance, a place of birth, or a religion

Committing a crime in a country you are claming asylum in, on which you are depending for your food, shelter and a new chance of life seems to me to be not omly the height of stupidity, but also a clear indicator of how valuable that individual is likely to be to his prospective adopted country. And since we have enough criminals of our own, why on earth would we want to deliberately import and retain more of the buggers to clog up our prisons ? No need for more rubbish. Just send them back!

And just who said I wanted to damn all others ? I only want to separate the criminals from the non criminals. Commit a crime and you're a criminal. Don't and you aren't. Simple.
And if a person tries to claim that he/she does not know where they came from, then drop them in Syria or wherever there is a hot war being faught. If they don't belong there they will find their way home well enough....after all they made it all the way to Germany without help. Or maybe they might just remember where they come from when faced with the choice ....

[Sam All]

andymadmak said:

Committing a crime in a country you are claming asylum in, on which you are depending for your food, shelter and a new chance of life seems to me to be not omly the height of stupidity, but also a clear indicator of how valuable that individual is likely to be to his prospective adopted country. And since we have enough criminals of our own, why on earth would we want to deliberately import and retain more of the buggers to clog up our prisons ? No need for more rubbish. Just send them back!

And just who said I wanted to damn all others ? I only want to separate the criminals from the non criminals. Commit a crime and you're a criminal. Don't and you aren't. Simple.
And if a person tries to claim that he/she does not know where they came from, then drop them in Syria or wherever there is a hot war being faught. If they don't belong there they will find their way home well enough....after all they made it all the way to Germany without help. Or maybe they might just remember where they come from when faced with the choice ....

Can't argue with that. Now who is going tell the politicians?

[Zod]

I'm not sure there are many who will argue against the deportation of asylum seekers who commit serious crimes.

[irocfan]

Zod said:

I'm not sure there are many who will argue against the deportation of asylum seekers who commit serious crimes.

you'd be wrong there old chap - we do have some 'celebrated' ones who've committed rape and murder who can't be deport because of their rights....