Can we talk about Germany for a bit?
Discussion
Bodo said:
krallicious said:
Bodo said:
You will still meet petrol station attendants with Greek/Italian/Turkish roots, who a more German than the Swiss.
A little harsh maybe. There are some decent Swiss Germans in Basel.v8250 said:
As for the aggressors, these men who are evidently fit and well fed. What is to be done with them? With their mindset it's no wonder their home territories are so f
ked up. A military friend of mine [a high ranking officer] and superb strategist has said many times this is a job for the military. He's very deep thinker, not a gun ho type, and recommends to all who will listen that this task is far beyond the abilities of politicians and the police. He believes they need to be contained, formally identified, processed and shipped back to their native countries. He understands and accepts this is a mammoth task but states 1. for the on going stability of Europe they can not remain, 2. they have no want or inclination to integrate, 3. even if they are allowed to remain they will cause such social disruption, such financial stress...and predicts large scale increase of very serious crime throughout all areas of Europe. His answer is military policing of these aggressors and ship them back. He rules out the use of aircraft as a transport option as he believes the risk to aircraft safety is too high.
Having read this I do hope this General is not in the UK army. That level of stupidity is difficult to imagine. ked up. A military friend of mine [a high ranking officer] and superb strategist has said many times this is a job for the military. He's very deep thinker, not a gun ho type, and recommends to all who will listen that this task is far beyond the abilities of politicians and the police. He believes they need to be contained, formally identified, processed and shipped back to their native countries. He understands and accepts this is a mammoth task but states 1. for the on going stability of Europe they can not remain, 2. they have no want or inclination to integrate, 3. even if they are allowed to remain they will cause such social disruption, such financial stress...and predicts large scale increase of very serious crime throughout all areas of Europe. His answer is military policing of these aggressors and ship them back. He rules out the use of aircraft as a transport option as he believes the risk to aircraft safety is too high.It take about 2 minutes of google to learn that most irregular migrants who do not have any claim to refugee status lose all their documents. So exactly how do you process them They say they come from a area where refugee stats would be granted but have lost all their papers. You know that the records, even if available, in that area are less then complete. So how the hell do you identify who they are and where they came from.
As for returning them not using aircraft. How does he plan to do it drive them back in army trucks crossing and therefore invading a number of counties in the process!!!
Mrr T said:
It take about 2 minutes of google to learn that most irregular migrants who do not have any claim to refugee status lose all their documents. So exactly how do you process them They say they come from a area where refugee stats would be granted but have lost all their papers. You know that the records, even if available, in that area are less then complete. So how the hell do you identify who they are and where they came from.
Very easy to test their claims of where they are from. From Aleppo? Please draw a basic map of the city, name a few landmarks etc etcstripy7 said:
Mrr T said:
It take about 2 minutes of google to learn that most irregular migrants who do not have any claim to refugee status lose all their documents. So exactly how do you process them They say they come from a area where refugee stats would be granted but have lost all their papers. You know that the records, even if available, in that area are less then complete. So how the hell do you identify who they are and where they came from.
Very easy to test their claims of where they are from. From Aleppo? Please draw a basic map of the city, name a few landmarks etc etcMrr T said:
stripy7 said:
Mrr T said:
It take about 2 minutes of google to learn that most irregular migrants who do not have any claim to refugee status lose all their documents. So exactly how do you process them They say they come from a area where refugee stats would be granted but have lost all their papers. You know that the records, even if available, in that area are less then complete. So how the hell do you identify who they are and where they came from.
Very easy to test their claims of where they are from. From Aleppo? Please draw a basic map of the city, name a few landmarks etc etcirocfan said:
one might imagine that Iraqis would not speak the same language, or dialect, as Afghans, Somalians or Moroccans? Might this not be a least a little way of weeding some chancers out?
First can I say I have no direct knowledge on dealing with refugee applications. I do know someone who was involved for several years. Showing them a DM headline of how inefficient the Border Agency was at handling refugees would guarantee a red face and a long rant. My comments are based on those rants.They did use interpreter's to try to identify native languages and dialects. The problem was the borders in much of the middle east where draw by the white man with little regard for tribes so languages and dialects cross borders. Further, a language spoke by a person who in one country where they are the majority (which would mean the application would fail) might claim to come from another where as a minority they may qualify. Finally, any determination was subject to legal review. I am not sure the decision standard is and it maybe below reasonable doubt it is much higher than balance of probabilities. So while languages and dialects may help it was unlikely to, on its own, give rise to a determination.
He also said a common claim was to be a Christian convert because with any languages or dialects you can claim persecution.
He also said even when a determination is made and there is no legal challenge deporting someone who has no papers is a nightmare.
It would take a hell of a lot of man power to have a million plus people drawing maps of Allepo (or any one of the many towns in war zones) and cross checking them against some disinterested 3rd party.
We have to be tougher and just say no. In the unlikely event that someone did flee a war zone in such a hurry they couldn't even pick up their ID card, driving licence, passport or something then surely whatever they escaped is far worse than living in Bodrum for a spell while you sort your documents out.
But the reality is, as we know full well, most of these people are not desperate refugees in fear for their lives. It is an invasion and European governments are facilitating it.
I am not exactly sure why but that's not the most pressing question right now. The most pressing question is how to convince anyone in power of the need to stop more coming and get rid of those that are here.
We have to be tougher and just say no. In the unlikely event that someone did flee a war zone in such a hurry they couldn't even pick up their ID card, driving licence, passport or something then surely whatever they escaped is far worse than living in Bodrum for a spell while you sort your documents out.
But the reality is, as we know full well, most of these people are not desperate refugees in fear for their lives. It is an invasion and European governments are facilitating it.
I am not exactly sure why but that's not the most pressing question right now. The most pressing question is how to convince anyone in power of the need to stop more coming and get rid of those that are here.
The whole issue is polarising and destabilising.
Genuinely think the EU is on borrowed time in the current format and the UNCHR will be ignored by most countries soon because it is unworkable.
Merkel & EU cronies insisting smaller countries take some of Germany's refugees is undermining sovereignty and is incredibly arrogant.
The idealists are laying a red carpet for a very right wing Europe. You see with Trump's popularism in the USA, people are sick of the (failing) establishment, journalism and politics, and love hearing the brashness.
Im a bit torn myself on the EU, but whenever I hear people demanding "dont vote for X", I will generally vote for "X". Does leave-EU mean anti-Europe, or does it mean pro-European interdepency culture?
Have notice a change in mainstream media recently...maybe they are embarrassed about the popularity of "alternative media". http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35687257 but comments are disabled for these news articles, hence everyone reverting to Youtube for uncensored info - however biased that can be.
Genuinely think the EU is on borrowed time in the current format and the UNCHR will be ignored by most countries soon because it is unworkable.
Merkel & EU cronies insisting smaller countries take some of Germany's refugees is undermining sovereignty and is incredibly arrogant.
The idealists are laying a red carpet for a very right wing Europe. You see with Trump's popularism in the USA, people are sick of the (failing) establishment, journalism and politics, and love hearing the brashness.
Im a bit torn myself on the EU, but whenever I hear people demanding "dont vote for X", I will generally vote for "X". Does leave-EU mean anti-Europe, or does it mean pro-European interdepency culture?
Have notice a change in mainstream media recently...maybe they are embarrassed about the popularity of "alternative media". http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35687257 but comments are disabled for these news articles, hence everyone reverting to Youtube for uncensored info - however biased that can be.
Hugh Jarse said:
The whole issue is polarising and destabilising.
Genuinely think the EU is on borrowed time in the current format and the UNCHR will be ignored by most countries soon because it is unworkable.
Merkel & EU cronies insisting smaller countries take some of Germany's refugees is undermining sovereignty and is incredibly arrogant.
The idealists are laying a red carpet for a very right wing Europe. You see with Trump's popularism in the USA, people are sick of the (failing) establishment, journalism and politics, and love hearing the brashness.
Yep and Germans themselves are getting more pissed off. The health care costs have gone up again to pay for these people. Genuinely think the EU is on borrowed time in the current format and the UNCHR will be ignored by most countries soon because it is unworkable.
Merkel & EU cronies insisting smaller countries take some of Germany's refugees is undermining sovereignty and is incredibly arrogant.
The idealists are laying a red carpet for a very right wing Europe. You see with Trump's popularism in the USA, people are sick of the (failing) establishment, journalism and politics, and love hearing the brashness.
On a more practical day to day note, we currently have problems with two Syrian families from the boon docks who continue crouch on the toilets and make a real mess (including menstrual blood) to the disgust and dismay of the others. You can't prove it is them and the sanctions are limited but I am thinking of taking a photograph next time and posting it on the wall of their house with the headline that the next time you do this a big German dressed in a Syrian army uniform is going to stuff your head down there. Unfortunately we can't send these morons back.
Bodo said:
In reality, you won't see what is reported in the media. Today is no difference to the time before the Syrian war. Munich will still have more policemen than Arab-looking people in the streets. School classes will still have more than 50% pupils with foreign background. Berlin will still have more Arab hipsters than policemen in the streets.
You will still meet petrol station attendants with Greek/Italian/Turkish roots, who a more German than the Swiss.
I was thinking the same thing. According to Google, Syria had a population of 22M in 2013- the EU has a population of 500M! If we could actually orchestrate a response worth a damn instead of focussing on our own short term interests (I mean, this is a crisis, after all), we could collectively swallow their whole country with only minor difficulty. Surely a crisis like this is what a giant talking shop like the EU was made for, yet everyone has descended into nationalism at the first bump in the road and thrown Greece under a bus.You will still meet petrol station attendants with Greek/Italian/Turkish roots, who a more German than the Swiss.
It all such a shame, Schengen was a real pragmatic and moral achievement for the EU countries which could have been gradually rolled out for the world (even the UK haha).
Yet if Germany has a porous border, it means everyone has a porous border.
Somehow the left wing idealists always find a way to fk things up/run out of money.
Those idealist have ruined Schengen and proved the naysayers in the UK right.
Another good example is countries would be willing to host refugees, if they went back, but they rarely do...suddenly refugees become immigrants...why? So the end result is nobody takes refugees so idealism results in total collapse.
The only thing wrong with this statement is to replace "self" with "UN".
The UN are so irresponsible to expect the whole world to potentially have asylum (permanent settlement) anywhere all the time. Makes no effing sense and totally unworkable given population demographics etc.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35696152
Yet if Germany has a porous border, it means everyone has a porous border.
Somehow the left wing idealists always find a way to f
k things up/run out of money.Those idealist have ruined Schengen and proved the naysayers in the UK right.
Another good example is countries would be willing to host refugees, if they went back, but they rarely do...suddenly refugees become immigrants...why? So the end result is nobody takes refugees so idealism results in total collapse.
The only thing wrong with this statement is to replace "self" with "UN".
The UN are so irresponsible to expect the whole world to potentially have asylum (permanent settlement) anywhere all the time. Makes no effing sense and totally unworkable given population demographics etc.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35696152
Apparently the mainstream parties in Germany are getting a bit of a kicking, but it's not the stupid undemocratic actions of the politicians, oh no, it's the fault of the damn pesky citizens!
Can't really comment on the quality of this link as some of the stories here seem a bit OTT.
http://notrickszone.com/2016/03/08/german-mainstre...
Can't really comment on the quality of this link as some of the stories here seem a bit OTT.
http://notrickszone.com/2016/03/08/german-mainstre...
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