Can we talk about Germany for a bit?
Discussion
Mr GrimNasty said:
Apparently the mainstream parties in Germany are getting a bit of a kicking, but it's not the stupid undemocratic actions of the politicians, oh no, it's the fault of the damn pesky citizens!
Can't really comment on the quality of this link as some of the stories here seem a bit OTT.
http://notrickszone.com/2016/03/08/german-mainstre...
Well, there were regional (city) elections last weekend and the CDU did lose some votes. In Frankfurt they were 5.9% down, Greens 10.9% (they currently govern as a coalition) whilst the SPD gained 2.1%. Can't really comment on the quality of this link as some of the stories here seem a bit OTT.
http://notrickszone.com/2016/03/08/german-mainstre...
Die Linke also gained as did the FPD (remember them?) but the biggest worry is the the AfD vote has increased drmatically in Frankfurt as well as in Kassel.
The AfD started off as a right of centre party with some good ideas but their message has slipped more and more to the right over the past couple of years. Worrying but I think that it is just the Germans telling the government that they are getting a little pissed off and I would expect the AfD to go the way of the FDP in 2014 come election time if things change.
To comment on Jim's post. Germany has a terrible history of leaders in recent time. I mean Adenauer (not our PH one), Brandt, Schmidt, Kohl and Schroeder were all s
t weren't they? Didn't accomplish much at all..........http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484046/Mi...
Cultural enrichment. More tolerance
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/08/muslim-...
Cultural enrichment. More tolerance
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/08/muslim-...
danllama said:
It would be amusing if it wasn't so fking destructive to the rest of us!
It breaks my heart to see what Sweden and Austria are going through at the moment, such beautiful countries being destroyed piece by piece.
I think even the apologists will also agree now. And yet in the scheme of things the number of such events is probably low - it is up to the government to send the message it should be zero or instant deportation. And is it economic migrants that are the guilty parties or genuine refugees?king destructive to the rest of us!It breaks my heart to see what Sweden and Austria are going through at the moment, such beautiful countries being destroyed piece by piece.
Esseesse said:
Hugh Jarse said:
It all such a shame, Schengen was a real pragmatic and moral achievement for the EU countries which could have been gradually rolled out for the world (even the UK haha).
Moral? What is immoral about a border control? Schengen was/is utopian drivel.Schengen was successful because it meant free unfettered travel between peaceful countries with stable populations that trust each other not to invade or steal from each other. Hence morality must exist on both side of the border to make Schengen possible. Hence it was a moral and behavioural milestone.
That morality has now disappeared, and Schengen is effectively over.
Apropos of this thread, I received an email yesterday, regarding a trade exhibition I attend, the triennial Bauma, which is the largest trade show on the planet, held in Munich.
Offical email said:
working closely with the Munich police force and the relevant officials, Messe München has drawn up a comprehensive security policy for Bauma 2016. These safety precautions include among others
- an increased presence of both uniformed and non-uniformed security personnel
- the presence of the police in the vicinity of the trade fair and within the grounds,
- random bag checks at all entrances using X-ray devices,
- site-wide video surveillance.
Been attending this since 2004 and never previously received or seen any such statement. It is a sad indictment of what has been allowed to happen to Europe.- an increased presence of both uniformed and non-uniformed security personnel
- the presence of the police in the vicinity of the trade fair and within the grounds,
- random bag checks at all entrances using X-ray devices,
- site-wide video surveillance.
Digga said:
Apropos of this thread, I received an email yesterday, regarding a trade exhibition I attend, the triennial Bauma, which is the largest trade show on the planet, held in Munich.
I would not wish to visit many of the countries these migrants come from, and certainly not live in those places.Offical email said:
working closely with the Munich police force and the relevant officials, Messe München has drawn up a comprehensive security policy for Bauma 2016. These safety precautions include among others
- an increased presence of both uniformed and non-uniformed security personnel
- the presence of the police in the vicinity of the trade fair and within the grounds,
- random bag checks at all entrances using X-ray devices,
- site-wide video surveillance.
Been attending this since 2004 and never previously received or seen any such statement. It is a sad indictment of what has been allowed to happen to Europe.- an increased presence of both uniformed and non-uniformed security personnel
- the presence of the police in the vicinity of the trade fair and within the grounds,
- random bag checks at all entrances using X-ray devices,
- site-wide video surveillance.
Now they are over here, and naive to believe the flow will not continue and get even stronger.
krallicious said:
To comment on Jim's post. Germany has a terrible history of leaders in recent time. I mean Adenauer (not our PH one), Brandt, Schmidt, Kohl and Schroeder were all st weren't they? Didn't accomplish much at all..........
I think that it's also important to note that Germany is quite an open country compared to other European countries because they have still a guilt complex about the second world war. t weren't they? Didn't accomplish much at all..........It may be hard to understand, because the Brits, French, Dutch (of which I am one) don't have this guilt complex drilled into them about all the crap we all pulled in the colonies, but the Germans are drilled to feel bad about their history from day 1 in their schools. There is a general understanding that they owe the world. (at least in the West, the East is slightly different due to other reasons)
At least, that's how I always observed it.
Hugh Jarse said:
Esseesse said:
Hugh Jarse said:
It all such a shame, Schengen was a real pragmatic and moral achievement for the EU countries which could have been gradually rolled out for the world (even the UK haha).
Moral? What is immoral about a border control? Schengen was/is utopian drivel.Schengen was successful because it meant free unfettered travel between peaceful countries with stable populations that trust each other not to invade or steal from each other. Hence morality must exist on both side of the border to make Schengen possible. Hence it was a moral and behavioural milestone.
That morality has now disappeared, and Schengen is effectively over.
Hugo a Gogo said:
Hugh Jarse said:
Esseesse said:
Hugh Jarse said:
It all such a shame, Schengen was a real pragmatic and moral achievement for the EU countries which could have been gradually rolled out for the world (even the UK haha).
Moral? What is immoral about a border control? Schengen was/is utopian drivel.Schengen was successful because it meant free unfettered travel between peaceful countries with stable populations that trust each other not to invade or steal from each other. Hence morality must exist on both side of the border to make Schengen possible. Hence it was a moral and behavioural milestone.
That morality has now disappeared, and Schengen is effectively over.
Schengen meant no ID controls saving a lot of tax and time for people.
There are ID checks between Denmark/Germany, Denmark/Sweden, 470 police on the border between Belgium and France, razor wires between Hungary/Austria etc etc etc that were not there last year. Merkel has effectively declared herself empress of Europe and railroaded a settlement where the Turkish will be visa free for European entry next year without proper consultation to the 28 countries in the EU. Turkey is a country without free press with a civil war in the East.
As long as it doesn't affect you directly then no doubt this does not bother you and everything is just fine. Fingers in the ears and horse blinkers on, everything is cool.
For the rest of us who give a s
t, when things change incrementally for worse it creates a disturbing trend to a destination we do not want to go to. Even people who tolerate for worse will see their quality of life eroded. Ten years ago police did not openly carry machine guns at airports, France did not have states of emergency and Brussels did not have a three week terror lockdown.Glad to be "ridiculous" if it means I bother what happens in wonderful Europe.
I don't know what regional airfields you flew out of but 20 years ago the police openly carried 'machine guns' on the streets of London and in the airports
for 100 years police openly carried guns in Ireland (with whom you have no border controls) and fully armed regular soldiers were regularly on the streets, in the north and in the republic
and you were probably stuck to the tv as we all were while the Brabant killers were on the loose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_killers
oh no, wait, nobody in the UK's even heard of it
or the RAF, Munich olympics, NSU killings etc etc
that was all with border controls
but that's by the by
your hyperbole about invasion, theft, morality is laughable, only matched by the claim that Schengen is 'utopian drivel' - crossing member states borders with bureaucracy is not exactly pie in the sky, it's perfectly practical and workable, if they sort the external borders
Belgium is not going to invade Luxembourg, Italy is not going to steal Austria's resources, the sky is not falling
but Schengen does need a firm border, which Greece is unable to provide
..and it does affect me directly, probably much more than you
for 100 years police openly carried guns in Ireland (with whom you have no border controls) and fully armed regular soldiers were regularly on the streets, in the north and in the republic
and you were probably stuck to the tv as we all were while the Brabant killers were on the loose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_killers
oh no, wait, nobody in the UK's even heard of it
or the RAF, Munich olympics, NSU killings etc etc
that was all with border controls
but that's by the by
your hyperbole about invasion, theft, morality is laughable, only matched by the claim that Schengen is 'utopian drivel' - crossing member states borders with bureaucracy is not exactly pie in the sky, it's perfectly practical and workable, if they sort the external borders
Belgium is not going to invade Luxembourg, Italy is not going to steal Austria's resources, the sky is not falling
but Schengen does need a firm border, which Greece is unable to provide
..and it does affect me directly, probably much more than you
Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Saturday 12th March 15:58
BlackLabel said:
D-Day for Merkel?
Absolutely true - I'm interested in the outcome of this!Short background:
- Late 2010, Merkel agreed with energy companies to extend the running time of some nuclear power plants in Germany to come closer to their expected lifetime; amid discussions to end nuclear power in Germany totally.
- Early 2011, a tsunami created by an earth quake destroyed Fukushima nuclear plant's diesel generators (which have the purpose to prevent a nuclear meltdown in case the plant gets shut-down due to an earthquake) that were placed in a danger zone. Subsequently, the nuclear meltdowns couldn't be prevented.
- With Landtagswahlen immediately due, Merkel announced the immediate exit from nuclear power in Germany, starting what is now known as Energiewende.
- Despite a liberated energy market, where everyone was free to choose if their energy includes nuclear energy, this decision had a positive impact for Merkels party, CDU; even though the Greens also had significant increases.
- Within these five years, Germans learned that their grid is significantly undersized to replace nuclear power plants across the country with alternative energy, coming mostly from wind power in the north.
- Both, from France and Czech Republic announcements were made to extend their nuclear power plants due to higher demand, despite German statistics claiming that Germany does not import nuclear energy.
- Early 2016, no populistic moves have been made by Merkel to serve irrational thinking within the population. Elections in local councils in Hesse showed that the high gains made by the greens in early 2011 in the same place were lost - and gained by a party never listed before, the right wing AfD with two-digit-percentages.
- On council level, however, the AfD has no influence on refugee/immigrant politics, so I like to assume that voters were just raising a point.
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