RBS: Panic! Sell everything! Meltdown looming!
Discussion
Remember Washington Mutual.
As of June 30, 2008, Washington Mutual Bank was the sixth largest bank in America and had total assets of US$307 billion, with 2,239 retail branch offices operating in 15 states.
It was allowed to go bust.
This is capitalism at work and is what we should have done with RBS.
Anything else is just corporatism and cronyism, so just ultimately causes economic harm.
The free market is always best and everything that government does it does badly.
Gordon Brown's bank "rescues" were mainly a Scottish prime minister wasting English tax payer's money to save Scottish jobs.
As of June 30, 2008, Washington Mutual Bank was the sixth largest bank in America and had total assets of US$307 billion, with 2,239 retail branch offices operating in 15 states.
It was allowed to go bust.
This is capitalism at work and is what we should have done with RBS.
Anything else is just corporatism and cronyism, so just ultimately causes economic harm.
The free market is always best and everything that government does it does badly.
Gordon Brown's bank "rescues" were mainly a Scottish prime minister wasting English tax payer's money to save Scottish jobs.
Edited by Adam Ansel on Thursday 14th January 08:56
Party time...
"What we know is that the first 3 phases of the Great Unwinding are now underway: the fall in the oil price, the rise of the US$, and the rise in US 10-year interest rates. Only the 4th is still to come - the bursting of the S&P 500 stock market bubble. And political risk is rising at the same time. It could be a difficult 2016."
http://www.icis.com/blogs/chemicals-and-the-econom...
http://www.icis.com/blogs/chemicals-and-the-econom...
"What we know is that the first 3 phases of the Great Unwinding are now underway: the fall in the oil price, the rise of the US$, and the rise in US 10-year interest rates. Only the 4th is still to come - the bursting of the S&P 500 stock market bubble. And political risk is rising at the same time. It could be a difficult 2016."
http://www.icis.com/blogs/chemicals-and-the-econom...
http://www.icis.com/blogs/chemicals-and-the-econom...
The RBS analyst who wrote the note is a serial Cassandra. He has been writing the same crap for over five years, presumably in the expectation that eventually things will go wrong and he can claim (like that other retard, Vince Cable) to have predicted it. RBS's stock of investment banking people is about as poor as you will find anywhere (if you were any good, would you work at RBS?), but even they should fire this idiot.
Zod said:
The RBS analyst who wrote the note is a serial Cassandra. He has been writing the same crap for over five years, presumably in the expectation that eventually things will go wrong and he can claim (like that other retard, Vince Cable) to have predicted it. RBS's stock of investment banking people is about as poor as you will find anywhere (if you were any good, would you work at RBS?), but even they should fire this idiot.
China is the big elephant in the room - you don't think it will have a huge impact esp on emerging markets.Uncharted waters again?
Sam All said:
Zod said:
The RBS analyst who wrote the note is a serial Cassandra. He has been writing the same crap for over five years, presumably in the expectation that eventually things will go wrong and he can claim (like that other retard, Vince Cable) to have predicted it. RBS's stock of investment banking people is about as poor as you will find anywhere (if you were any good, would you work at RBS?), but even they should fire this idiot.
China is the big elephant in the room - you don't think it will have a huge impact esp on emerging markets.Uncharted waters again?
Adam Ansel said:
Remember Washington Mutual.
As of June 30, 2008, Washington Mutual Bank was the sixth largest bank in America and had total assets of US$307 billion, with 2,239 retail branch offices operating in 15 states.
It was allowed to go bust.
This is capitalism at work and is what we should have done with RBS.
Anything else is just corporatism and cronyism, so just ultimately causes economic harm.
The free market is always best and everything that government does it does badly.
Gordon Brown's bank "rescues" were mainly a Scottish prime minister wasting English tax payer's money to save Scottish jobs.
WaMu's depositors were rescued by FDIC, AFAIK they didn't lose a cent. The business was then given to JPM for peanuts. Techincally it went into liquidation but everyone bar the shareholders were bailed out with all the branches eventually becoming JPM. In any event WaMu had £150bn of assets, RBS had £2500bn. Given that the US economy is 20 times bigger than the UK's and RBS's assets were 16 times bigger than WaMu's the relative importance to the respective national economies is obvious. WaMu was not too big to fail, RBS was. Had RBS been allowed to fail the FSCS could not have covered depositors losses. Every other bank would have gone like dominoes and taken every UK business with it. Don't get me wrong, Brown was an utter disaster for the UK but rescuing RBS was the right call, even if it could have been handled better.As of June 30, 2008, Washington Mutual Bank was the sixth largest bank in America and had total assets of US$307 billion, with 2,239 retail branch offices operating in 15 states.
It was allowed to go bust.
This is capitalism at work and is what we should have done with RBS.
Anything else is just corporatism and cronyism, so just ultimately causes economic harm.
The free market is always best and everything that government does it does badly.
Gordon Brown's bank "rescues" were mainly a Scottish prime minister wasting English tax payer's money to save Scottish jobs.
Zod said:
The RBS analyst who wrote the note is a serial Cassandra. He has been writing the same crap for over five years, presumably in the expectation that eventually things will go wrong and he can claim (like that other retard, Vince Cable) to have predicted it. RBS's stock of investment banking people is about as poor as you will find anywhere (if you were any good, would you work at RBS?), but even they should fire this idiot.
@ RBSturbobloke said:
Haven't some traders and also finance journalists faced arrest and jail time for manipulating markets using crystal balling of one kind or another? Reporting ends and manipulation starts at some point.
Their editor also allegedly filled his boots the same way by allegedly buying a load of tipped Viglen shares. Allegedly.
You'll never guess what his name is.
:INNOCENT FACE:
Zod said:
China has been going this way for the last four years. There are no surprises there.
Buying opportunity on the face if it, but commodity countries (eg Canada) and their banking system must be exposed to this continuing slow down - how long before assets become non-performing.Sam All said:
Zod said:
China has been going this way for the last four years. There are no surprises there.
Buying opportunity on the face if it, but commodity countries (eg Canada) and their banking system must be exposed to this continuing slow down - how long before assets become non-performing.Zod said:
Australia is the most exposed, I think. They are finally getting their recession, but it looks less severe than the one that the US, UK and (especially) the rest of Europe, suffered. The mining sector is in trouble and has been for at least a year. Look at the share price falls over the last twelve months. Some companies may go bust, but the assets will be preserved and will be making money again when demand picks up.
I know apropos of this "cassandra" thread, zerohedge isn't the beset to link to (although to be fair they do have the odd gem in amongst the doom and gloom mongering) but this is a good piece on Aus:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-09/what-indu...
Prices of heavy machinery in the region are being hammered, so the mining firms aren;t just getting a revenue hit, but also a nasty kick in the residuals too.
zerohedge said:
Was: $2.9m | Now: $15,000: Caterpillar 992C wheel loader
Was: $1.4m | Now: $50,000: Hitachi EX1200 hydraulic excavator
Not so sure on the values for the loading shovel, but here in the EU, even a poxy little 85 tonner 9that Hitachi is 120 tonnes) will be over 200,000 EUR. not really sure what previous residuals in Aus would be - it's kind of a PITA shipping big kit like that long distances, so it will have an impact on them, but my hunch is they'd have been better than that,Was: $1.4m | Now: $50,000: Hitachi EX1200 hydraulic excavator
Zod said:
One of my mining clients took a massive writedown in its accounts before Christmas. It wasn't for its reserves, but for the plant and machinery.
What sort of scale? If I had to base a guess, then looking at that Hitachi I'd estimate it being a 300,000 EUR machine, landed in Europe.EUR:AUD at 1.5 means 33,000 / 300,000 so roughly 90% hit.
Digga said:
Zod said:
One of my mining clients took a massive writedown in its accounts before Christmas. It wasn't for its reserves, but for the plant and machinery.
What sort of scale? If I had to base a guess, then looking at that Hitachi I'd estimate it being a 300,000 EUR machine, landed in Europe.EUR:AUD at 1.5 means 33,000 / 300,000 so roughly 90% hit.
Digga said:
Zod said:
One of my mining clients took a massive writedown in its accounts before Christmas. It wasn't for its reserves, but for the plant and machinery.
What sort of scale? If I had to base a guess, then looking at that Hitachi I'd estimate it being a 300,000 EUR machine, landed in Europe.EUR:AUD at 1.5 means 33,000 / 300,000 so roughly 90% hit.
loafer123 said:
Digga said:
Zod said:
One of my mining clients took a massive writedown in its accounts before Christmas. It wasn't for its reserves, but for the plant and machinery.
What sort of scale? If I had to base a guess, then looking at that Hitachi I'd estimate it being a 300,000 EUR machine, landed in Europe.EUR:AUD at 1.5 means 33,000 / 300,000 so roughly 90% hit.
Granted, you're getting a 120 tonne machine for the price of a new 3 tonne mini digger, but you can't easily run them down the roads (anything much over 60 tonnes needs increasing degrees of dismantling to transport on low loaders), spares are pricey and they don't half get through some diesel. The adage "what can do a lot can do a little" is a bit misplaced with these things!
Edited by Digga on Thursday 14th January 16:21
fblm said:
Blimey. Would have thought they were worth more than that scrap, I guess they are in the outback somewhere 15,000 miles from civilisation.
Scrap prices on their arse because of teh BRICS slowdown - China in particular - hence the demise of the Aus mines in the first place, but yes, someone somewhere (probably not in a crowded UK where there's not enough cheap land) could make a killing 'rescuing' them.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff