Primary School Visit to Mosque

[standards]

TVR1 said:

But then, what do you expect when Mohammed himself took an 8 year old as his bride? I'll give him the fact that he waited until she was 12 to consummate the marriage. The dark ages are alive and well.

Be a bit more circumspect Sir, Margaret of Beaufort was on her second marriage when she gave birth to Henry VII. She was just 13.

[AJS-]

standards said:

Be a bit more circumspect Sir, Margaret of Beaufort was on her second marriage when she gave birth to Henry VII. She was just 13.

But I don't know anyone who takes Edmond Tudor as the best example of a Briton ever to have lived regardless of time or place.

[HTP99]

greygoose said:

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

I agree, there seems to be a huge amount of fear in these pages.

Most of the comments on here sound like the sort of thing that I'll informed bickering school mums would say to each other at school drop off in the morning.

For the record I would happily send my kids on such a trip; if I had kids of that age, mine are far older now, it helps give an understanding of how others live their lives.

I'm 41, white, brought up as C of E but as soon as I was old enough to make my own decisions I knocked all the church going on the head, however I do respect that there are others out there who have different beliefs to me and I think it is helpful for others to understand this.

[powerstroke]

I would be more than slighty concerned due to the way other issues such as climate change are handled ,

[GT03ROB]

HTP99 said:

greygoose said:

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

I agree, there seems to be a huge amount of fear in these pages.

Most of the comments on here sound like the sort of thing that I'll informed bickering school mums would say to each other at school drop off in the morning.

For the record I would happily send my kids on such a trip; if I had kids of that age, mine are far older now, it helps give an understanding of how others live their lives.

I'm 41, white, brought up as C of E but as soon as I was old enough to make my own decisions I knocked all the church going on the head, however I do respect that there are others out there who have different beliefs to me and I think it is helpful for others to understand this.

Good to see there remains some sense on PH.

[manic47]

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

This is the most sensible thing I've read in this thread.
It's a quick trip to show the kids something they've been taught about, but won't normally see..

My wife's school swapped classes for a day with a small village school - if you saw some of the parents comments you would have thought their children were being shipped off to Islmamabad or Kabul rather than to a small, multi-cultural Northamptonshire town for the day.

[grumbledoak]

greygoose said:

I agree, there seems to be a huge amount of fear in these pages.

Really? I don't. I do see a fair amount of politically correct posturing.


This is no learning experience and would be no loss. OP, take your kids out for the day.

[0000]

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

I'm sure no one's going to be brainwashed, radicalised, raped or shot, at least in a day. But they are looking for children to indoctrinate, much as any other religion is, albeit this is a particularly distasteful religion. I don't think schools should be serving up children to them, they should be warning them about religion from a classroom.

I enjoy the Daily Mail as much as the next PHer but most of my opinion here is formed by having lived in Muslim countries, not London.

[Smiler.]

standards said:

TVR1 said:

But then, what do you expect when Mohammed himself took an 8 year old as his bride? I'll give him the fact that he waited until she was 12 to consummate the marriage. The dark ages are alive and well.

Be a bit more circumspect Sir, Margaret of Beaufort was on her second marriage when she gave birth to Henry VII. She was just 13.

What a slapper.

[Liokault]

Would have to say no.

My 8 year old is exposed to enough weirdness from the Muslim girl she lift shares with already.

[Troubleatmill]

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

I'm not paranoid.
I don't read the Daily Mail.
Of course the kids aren't going to be radicalised.
I have worked with Muslims,Hindus etc for 30 years.
They are welcome to their faith.

But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.

[stuartmmcfc]

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

This is exactly what happened when my daughter visited a mosque, except she didn't have to cover her head.
I'd happily allow her to do it again but there again, I don't read the Daily Mail.

[alock]

Dressing up for fun and a forced dress code are two very different things.

Pretend that next year the school topic is slavery. When the kids go on a field trip do you expect the black kids in the class to wear a loin cloth and shackles?

[crossy67]

Funny how some on here think indoctrinating or brainwashing children by a religion is abhorrent but are quite happy to instill their xenophobic or religiophobic small minded beliefs from the cradle.

By the way, I don't agree with the indoctrination of children in schools but do thing they should be informed and should have as many educational experiences as possible before they grow up scared of the boogey man.

[AJS-]

crossy67 said:

Funny how some on here think indoctrinating or brainwashing children by a religion is abhorrent but are quite happy to instill their xenophobic or religiophobic small minded beliefs from the cradle.

By the way, I don't agree with the indoctrination of children in schools but do thing they should be informed and should have as many educational experiences as possible before they grow up scared of the boogey man.

Ok. So will this be balanced by say, a lecture by Robert Spencer? Or a visit to a Coptic Church to explore how Christians live under Islam?

[Pickled Piper]

Sheets Tabuer said:

Since having a daughter I've become a feminist.

I will teach my daughter she is every bit as good as a man and judging by me she's probably better, she is not second class, she does not have to hide, she does not have to cover up unless she wants to. She can tell men to fk off, she does not need to ask a mans permission.

If she wants to visit religious institutions she is welcome when she makes up her mind to do so.

I'd tell them to stick the letter.

Proud Father of two independent and free thinking daughters here. I found it was useful for my daughters to get an appreciation of how women are treated within other cultures. They are both secondary school age now and have Muslim friends and acquaintances. They have an understanding of how most of the Muslim girls have a differing world view. It also made them more appreciate the freedoms and lack of restriction that they are allowed.

My recommendation is let your child go. Talk to them afterwards.

[ofcorsa]

Pickled Piper said:

Sheets Tabuer said:

Since having a daughter I've become a feminist.

I will teach my daughter she is every bit as good as a man and judging by me she's probably better, she is not second class, she does not have to hide, she does not have to cover up unless she wants to. She can tell men to fk off, she does not need to ask a mans permission.

If she wants to visit religious institutions she is welcome when she makes up her mind to do so.

I'd tell them to stick the letter.

Proud Father of two independent and free thinking daughters here. I found it was useful for my daughters to get an appreciation of how women are treated within other cultures. They are both secondary school age now and have Muslim friends and acquaintances. They have an understanding of how most of the Muslim girls have a differing world view. It also made them more appreciate the freedoms and lack of restriction that they are allowed.

My recommendation is let your child go. Talk to them afterwards.

My view too. I was brought up CofE fairly religious family, Private bible studies at 11. Became an Atheist at about 13. The more I learned and talked about this stuff with my parents, the less I believed.


Children should learn how the world is, not just how you want the world to be. Otherwise it's just a different kind of indoctrination.

[24lemons]

School trips I have been on;

Several trips to various farms, I didnt become a farmer
Visited power stations, I'm not radioactive nor do I posses super powers
Visited France, Don't feel the need to cycle everywhere wearing a string of onions
Went orienteering, didn't develop a sense of direction

I've also attended more churches and cathedrals than I can remember, I said the lords prayer in assembly every morning throughout my school days. I visited other places of worship including mosques and synagogues and I'm not religious in the slightest. (this was a normal state education, no church schools etc..)

Your upbringing has far more influence on how you develop as a person than anything else yet there seems to be a worrying amount of people who feel that its fine to pass their prejudices on to their own children.

Offering kids the chance to learn about other religions gives them the ability to make educated informed decisions about other cultures. Not allowing them to participate because of your own fears and prejudices only serves to spread misinformation and ignorance to another generation.

I feel sorry for children with parents like this.

[S10GTA]

What a depressing read. How about some of you let your child form their own opinions of religion rather than the bigoted view you've clearly gained from the Daily Mail. Ffs.

Saw this the other day. Thought it appropriate.

Edited by S10GTA on Saturday 16th January 09:41

[Corpulent Tosser]

Silver Smudger said:

I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.

I recently went on a similar primary school trip with my kids to a Gurdwara - Shoes had to be removed and heads had to be covered, as these are the rules of the building. Some of the kids thought the head-scarves issued looked silly, some pretended to be ninjas - Most of the boys skated on the marble floors in their socks!

I found the visit very interesting, knowing very little about the Sikh faith, and so did many of the class - No-one was preached to, or converted but the children were able to meet people they normally would not have known.

Learning a little about how others see the world and live their lives is something that everyone should take time to do, and this is an opportunity, not a trap.

FWIW, I am not a Muslim, I am white, middle aged and brought up in the Baptist church, but am now not religious. I went to an all-white C of E school - Now I work in London with people from an assortment of backgrounds, religious groups and countries of origin, and count some of them as good friends. I do not personally know any extreme jihadists, but I never met anyone from the UVF at church either...

Some of you could do with actually meeting a Muslim, instead of relying on the Daily Mail for your opinions.

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 16th January 03:00

I agree, I am non religious and have deep suspicion about religions particularly Islam, but this is a school trip, to further the education and knowledge of the children, not a brainwashing exercise.