Primary School Visit to Mosque
Discussion
WinkleHoff said:
OP: are the school conducting visits to other temples or places of worship of other religions?
No, as stated in the OP. They have done this in RE for two year plus, and no other visits. Same at my daughters school, they learn about the lot, but do not visit anywhere (not yet anyway).If it is like my daughters place, the level of teaching is very high, she really does know a lot about the various religions, certainly more than me on some. And I encourage that.
eccles said:
All religions discriminate against women. So I take you wouldn't be happy about a visit to your local cathedral then?
How would she be discriminated against during that visit though? If she was asked to stand away from the boys or not allowed to go into certain areas, absolutely "no" she would not be going.
Again we are not religious. And we are not sexist either. My daughter plays football and basket ball, in fact that is all they do at her school. No netball for example, traditionally a women's game.
el stovey said:
So you're asking opinions about a letter about a school trip sent to some other parents your wife overheard discussing and then told you about. 
She has a copy of the letter. These kids involved are friends of my daughter's we know them well, and they are local and got the same Brownie troop. TBH, I am glad we are not in the position these parents are in.
poo at Paul's said:
Evanivitch said:
So you'd deprive your child the opportunity to learn about a religion for themselves? You'd rather impose your own prejudices on them from an early age?
a) I see it as protecting her. b) Why should I let strangers 60 miles away impose "THEIR" prejudices on her? (BTW, it isn't Rotheram!?)
I'm not saying she cannot learn about the religion, in school as she does already and these kids from the other school already do. And she will make her own mind up about it one day.
We are not religious at all in our house.
ATG said:
You are over reacting enormously. Calm down. Let the school get on with trying to educate your kid.
Again, please read the OP. It is not my kid. My child is educated very well. This is the school her mates go to. Parents are feeling awkward and particularly those with daughters (but not all I may add) but as a father to a daughter, I can see why they would be feeling awkward. And from this thread I suspect I am not alone.Please don't think I feel any kids on this visit would be brainwashed, radicalised, or abused. I don't. But , I do see the imposition of a dress code on the girls, who are 7 and 8 and therefore according to one poster on here, not subject to this dress code, to be a form of discrimination against her on the basis of her sex. And I would feel uncomfortable with that.
Shoes off for all, not a problem. Keeping quiet or in certain areas, for all, not a problem. 7 and 8 yrs old girls being singled out to wear clobber they don't normally wear, on an organised school trip in uniform, well that troubles me personally.
And it is on that basis alone, nothing else, that if it WERE my daughter, I would say a polite no and explain to school why.
This is an interesting debate and more replies than i thought, but seems to have been hijacked in the middle by people crying that some are being paranoid about indoctrination, radcialisation etc, and I see no evidence of that. But same protagonists and irritants will be claiming racism soon enough.
And it had nowt to do with it from what I can see. I don't see any posts from people claiminf their kids would be radicalised or abused. But maybe I cannot "read between the lines" like others.
Sexism is the issue here, I am quite surprised we have so many supporters of it as IMHO there is no place for it in 2016 UK.
poo at Paul's said:
WinkleHoff said:
OP: are the school conducting visits to other temples or places of worship of other religions?
No, as stated in the OP. They have done this in RE for two year plus, and no other visits. Same at my daughters school, they learn about the lot, but do not visit anywhere (not yet anyway).If it is like my daughters place, the level of teaching is very high, she really does know a lot about the various religions, certainly more than me on some. And I encourage that.
It was mentioned earlier that what comes from this thread is an atmosphere of fear. Could it be that parents are exercising their right to take an interest in their children's education? In any other subject, other than politically correct matters, parents taking such interest would be seen as it being about time they did.
Given the death and destruction in many parts of the world by allegedly Islamist groups, this is an obvious attempt to allay that fear on the back of 'inclusivity' - and that catch-all term is by no means supported by all. If the dress code is so objectionable, why do so many tourists in Italy readily accept that they should cover their shoulders when visiting RC cathedrals? In this OP case it seems the very young children are being 'used' in a way not usually required of children of a similar age in their particular faith. That's a no-no.
There is much more bigotry and ill-measured hatred in the constant derogatory snipes at the Daily Mail than against Islam, and from posters who are presumably convinced of their own righteousness. Seems there are more DM readers on here that take exception to it than any outlet. Wonder if they realise how daft they are?
Given the death and destruction in many parts of the world by allegedly Islamist groups, this is an obvious attempt to allay that fear on the back of 'inclusivity' - and that catch-all term is by no means supported by all. If the dress code is so objectionable, why do so many tourists in Italy readily accept that they should cover their shoulders when visiting RC cathedrals? In this OP case it seems the very young children are being 'used' in a way not usually required of children of a similar age in their particular faith. That's a no-no.
There is much more bigotry and ill-measured hatred in the constant derogatory snipes at the Daily Mail than against Islam, and from posters who are presumably convinced of their own righteousness. Seems there are more DM readers on here that take exception to it than any outlet. Wonder if they realise how daft they are?
poo at Paul's said:
I do not worry that my daughter would be "brainwashed" or anything else. But should she be subjected to the discrimination that this fait practices on their women folk, even just a little, like wearing a headscarf?
Are you sure about this? There is no requirement for any visitors to a mosque of any age to wear headscarves. Muslims of both sexes are recommended to wear head coverings when praying or reading the Koran but again it's not compulsory.poo at Paul's said:
This is a school that was in the top 3 of the league tables a few years ago, in the country that is, btw!
Sounds like they might know a thing or two about how best to teach the kids.....Silver Smudger said:
I really am amazed how paranoid and hysterical this thread is - No-one on a school trip is going to be brainwashed, radicalise, raped or shot! It will be a tour of a building and some information about how a group of normal humans worship their deity of choice. There is also a dress code.
It's not the dress code per se that's the issue, it's the different dress code for boys and girls. And the reason behind such a code, that girls need to be modest, chaste, and not put temptation in the way of the opposite sex.It's completely indicative of the attitude to females in the 3 Abrahamic religions, the Jezabell complex, all women are w
es.There is no place for this in 21st C Britain, and we should not be encouraging respect for this dangerous nonsense via school trips. Tolerance certainly, but not respect.
In fact, given legislation on sexual equality, homophobia and racism etc, I'm amazed the bilbe, torah and koran are still allowed to be on general sale. If I wrote stuff saying I'd like to do to Muslims what the koran says should be done to me as an atheist, I'd be in jail. And rightly so.
Troubleatmill said:
I'm not paranoid.
I don't read the Daily Mail.
Of course the kids aren't going to be radicalised.
I have worked with Muslims,Hindus etc for 30 years.
They are welcome to their faith.
But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.
A 6yr old isn't capable of the type of critical thinking required to decide whether religion is a good or bad thing. I also agree with the earlier comments about who is doing the 'teaching' and what is being said that the children are 'learning'.I don't read the Daily Mail.
Of course the kids aren't going to be radicalised.
I have worked with Muslims,Hindus etc for 30 years.
They are welcome to their faith.
But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.
If parents want their children to be exposed to organised religion, take them to churches and mosques etc yourselves.
Religion of any kind has no place in schools, especially anything that endorses it or portrays it as being in any way valid.
Islam in particular is abhorrent for the way in which it treats women.
TC8 said:
Perhaps I'd consider how distasteful the ideology is. For example, I'd have no bother letting mine visit a cathederal, whereas I'd not be too pleased if the visit was to a religious Neo-Nazi group.
So visiting a monumental building built through taxation of the impoverished through fear (pay or you'll go to hell), to celebrate a mythical being is okay? Especially one that treats women as second class citizens and has a history of homophobia and paedophilia? And also a few centuries of needless wars and massacre in foreign lands?Face it, religion is generally used to extort and to oppress. You really can't play a game of "least horrendous".
Funk said:
Troubleatmill said:
I'm not paranoid.
I don't read the Daily Mail.
Of course the kids aren't going to be radicalised.
I have worked with Muslims,Hindus etc for 30 years.
They are welcome to their faith.
But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.
A 6yr old isn't capable of the type of critical thinking required to decide whether religion is a good or bad thing. I also agree with the earlier comments about who is doing the 'teaching' and what is being said that the children are 'learning'.I don't read the Daily Mail.
Of course the kids aren't going to be radicalised.
I have worked with Muslims,Hindus etc for 30 years.
They are welcome to their faith.
But taking 6 year old kids to a place of religion??
No.
If parents want their children to be exposed to organised religion, take them to churches and mosques etc yourselves.
Religion of any kind has no place in schools, especially anything that endorses it or portrays it as being in any way valid.
Islam in particular is abhorrent for the way in which it treats women.
el stovey said:
Like the racist field trip?
http://youtu.be/PToqVW4n86U
Contains Swearing and possibly could indoctrinate children.
http://youtu.be/PToqVW4n86U
Contains Swearing and possibly could indoctrinate children.
Funny guy!
poo at Paul's said:
Sexism is the issue here, I am quite surprised we have so many supporters of it as IMHO there is no place for it in 2016 UK.
It's the same level of completely trivial sexism that is displayed by a restaurant that asks men to wear a jacket and tie. Did you ever feel discriminated against because you as a man were asked to wear a tie?If we can't make these trivial concessions to other people's sensibilities even if they are stupid/unfair or whatever, then god help us all. If we aren't prepared for our children to make these trivial concessions in return for an opportunity to learn how other people think, then good help our children.
ATG said:
It's the same level of completely trivial sexism that is displayed by a restaurant that asks men to wear a jacket and tie. Did you ever feel discriminated against because you as a man were asked to wear a tie?
A restaurant like that would normally require the woman to dress smartly also. So no discrimination at all. If the men had to wear jacket and tie but women could wear ripped jeans and a tee shirt, you'd have a point.
Evanivitch said:
Can the boys wear skirts to school?
I'm not sure but they do wear shorts. The girls can wear trousers too. But both sexes have a choice as to what to wear within the typical confines of the school uniform and colours. I think that is quite common and the same at my daughter's place. Edited by poo at Paul's on Saturday 16th January 18:55
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