Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Poll: Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Total Members Polled: 1469
Discussion
sealtt said:
I sincerely hope that if the vote is to remain, the media, voters and political parties will continue to put our membership of the EU under much more scrutiny. For far too long the EU has been running along in the background, now much good has come of the Union, however there are many, many negatives as we are all well aware. It is time now that the EU becomes a long term political topic of key importance, not just have the referendum be the hot topic and then 1 year post-vote end up with the EU being a second tier news topic. There must be much more importance attached to elections for MEPs; what the country's MEPs are doing; what decisions are being made; how decisions are being made (and if democracy is at the heart of how those decisions have come to be) and so on. This for me should be the key lesson for the country & our politicians if the vote is to remain.
You really believe that the EU really care about scrutiny, dear oh dear. This statement, and others that have said "better being in the EU in so we can change it", are seriously deluded.The EU care not one jot about change, they will steamroller every attempt to do so. We've applied over 70 vetos in the last couple of decades and all got voted down, do you think they listen?
The federalisation of Europe run by unseen committees and bureaucrats, will continue to laugh in the face of any criticism, where democracy and transparency are trampled on. I want us to decide our own laws and fiscal policy. The EU is a basket case and the sooner we leave the better.
sealtt said:
I sincerely hope that if the vote is to remain, the media, voters and political parties will continue to put our membership of the EU under much more scrutiny.
There's considerable scrutiny elsewhere so I suspect that hope will be fulfilled.The shenanigans in Austria and international reaction to it is one illustration of how the EU is capable of provoking a strong reaction when it fails to listen.
Austria poised to elect far-right Freedom Party amid growing anger at mass-migration...Austrian chancellor quits after migrant crisis sees far-right storm ahead in elections...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/671997/Austria...
scenario8 said:
FWIW and in attempt to provide some answer to some of the questions posted directly above I give as evidence - myself.
I'm right of centre, I'm not in any way shouty or heavily built. I'm not a company director and I don't throw cans of Red Bull. I doubt many of my friends, family or colleagues would consider me to be obnoxious. My academic training was in Politics. Over the years I have learnt that political threads on PH are frequently horrible places so tend to ignore them. As an example this is the first time I have read or posted on any of the numerous threads on the topic of the EU referendum because rightly or wrongly I had made prejudicial assumptions about its tone and content. I have only read the current "last" page. I have not voted in the Poll.
I will not be voting Leave. For the removal of doubt that is not because I believe the EU to be an unqualified success or indisputably A Good Thing. I sincerely believe a big old chunk of it is bad or worse. Yet I do not believe leaving it would be wise. I hope Remain prevails but also hope the powers that be don't mistake that as unequivocal support from the British nation. I am under no illusion, however, that my preferred version of the EU would ever be realised so I will have to put up with the least worst option available to me and that is to Remain.
So I'm another of the silent Remainers. At least I was.
My prediction is of a very tight vote for Remain. Possibly made tighter by a good turnout for the Leavers and a lower turnout for the Remainers. I have a genuine fear the vote may go the other way, mind.
Well written, balanced and thought out post. SPLITTER.I'm right of centre, I'm not in any way shouty or heavily built. I'm not a company director and I don't throw cans of Red Bull. I doubt many of my friends, family or colleagues would consider me to be obnoxious. My academic training was in Politics. Over the years I have learnt that political threads on PH are frequently horrible places so tend to ignore them. As an example this is the first time I have read or posted on any of the numerous threads on the topic of the EU referendum because rightly or wrongly I had made prejudicial assumptions about its tone and content. I have only read the current "last" page. I have not voted in the Poll.
I will not be voting Leave. For the removal of doubt that is not because I believe the EU to be an unqualified success or indisputably A Good Thing. I sincerely believe a big old chunk of it is bad or worse. Yet I do not believe leaving it would be wise. I hope Remain prevails but also hope the powers that be don't mistake that as unequivocal support from the British nation. I am under no illusion, however, that my preferred version of the EU would ever be realised so I will have to put up with the least worst option available to me and that is to Remain.
So I'm another of the silent Remainers. At least I was.
My prediction is of a very tight vote for Remain. Possibly made tighter by a good turnout for the Leavers and a lower turnout for the Remainers. I have a genuine fear the vote may go the other way, mind.
Re: Social media
During the 2015 election it was all about social media. As this is a young persons game and naive youngsters tend to vote Labour twitter et al were a Labour echo chamber. Dissent was soon quashed. How did that work out?
I see many people who are passionate about the EU debate having a say and they have a voice on social networks such as PH, The Daily Mail, Telegraph et al to do it. But it is an echo chamber. Most people don't actually care.
One must not forget that the UK is mainly a conservative nation. Change only happens if it must. Labour didn't win in 1997 because they had such a remarkable vision of the UK (kind tory) but because the Tories were such a shambles they had no choice and Blair was the acceptable face of that change. In 2010 the public were sick of new Labour and ol one eye was electoral arsenic. Cameron was okay but the public were unsure. Hence the hung parliament. Then in 2015 they looked at the Tories and Labour and went with the devil they knew. Poor Nick never stood a chance because the Lib Dems were originally the protest vote.
So here we are. Yes the EU us deeply flawed. Yes the UK still has a little englander mentality despite being built on immigration. But overall the sums of money and the level of immigration NOW (rather than during the EU accession of the east days) isn't that bad. The less educated and elderly tend to still lurch to the brexit but in general the economy is doing okay on the surface and many people are soon going to Europe on holiday.
The fear of uncertainty and a lack of compelling argument means that the Brexit vote was doomed from the off. The only question is what happens after they lose. Will they take it like gents or huff and puff?
(Some of the posts above are the usual misogynistic idiocy. It isn't big, clever or witty gents. This is 2016. Why not try growing up? My guess is you feel threatened by vaginas)
During the 2015 election it was all about social media. As this is a young persons game and naive youngsters tend to vote Labour twitter et al were a Labour echo chamber. Dissent was soon quashed. How did that work out?
I see many people who are passionate about the EU debate having a say and they have a voice on social networks such as PH, The Daily Mail, Telegraph et al to do it. But it is an echo chamber. Most people don't actually care.
One must not forget that the UK is mainly a conservative nation. Change only happens if it must. Labour didn't win in 1997 because they had such a remarkable vision of the UK (kind tory) but because the Tories were such a shambles they had no choice and Blair was the acceptable face of that change. In 2010 the public were sick of new Labour and ol one eye was electoral arsenic. Cameron was okay but the public were unsure. Hence the hung parliament. Then in 2015 they looked at the Tories and Labour and went with the devil they knew. Poor Nick never stood a chance because the Lib Dems were originally the protest vote.
So here we are. Yes the EU us deeply flawed. Yes the UK still has a little englander mentality despite being built on immigration. But overall the sums of money and the level of immigration NOW (rather than during the EU accession of the east days) isn't that bad. The less educated and elderly tend to still lurch to the brexit but in general the economy is doing okay on the surface and many people are soon going to Europe on holiday.
The fear of uncertainty and a lack of compelling argument means that the Brexit vote was doomed from the off. The only question is what happens after they lose. Will they take it like gents or huff and puff?
(Some of the posts above are the usual misogynistic idiocy. It isn't big, clever or witty gents. This is 2016. Why not try growing up? My guess is you feel threatened by vaginas)
Elroy Blue said:
An in vote will mean the EU bureaucrats will laugh at the little people and steam ahead.
Very likely indeed. Is anyone seriously expecting anything else and planning for that something else?! Elroy Blue said:
On the wall of the EU Parliament visitors centre
FFS.
Then again...y'see...this core trajectory towards ever closer union is a figment of Leavers' imagination...inclusion of the principle in n Treaties is purely for appearance...and CMD got us a piece of paper with a get-out-of-ever-closer-union-free card...totally future proof and all sorted...
INWB said:
(Some of the posts above are the usual misogynistic idiocy. It isn't big, clever or witty gents. This is 2016. Why not try growing up? My guess is you feel threatened by vaginas)
In all the excitement I must have missed the PH version of The Vagina If any of us mature males don't feel threatened by a vadge or two we can still vote either way, surely?
REALIST123 said:
My experience tells me that there are far too many people on this country incapable of rational thought and of making a conscious decision on any important matter; but they will vote and will be influenced by the likes of Cameron and, more so, Corbyn and Obama.
Do you really think that those on the remain side are incapable of rational thought? What do you make of these figures that suggest better educated and professional people tend to support remain?https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/24/eu-referendum...
Yougov said:
On the other hand, university graduates (70-30 per cent for “in”) and people in the professional and managerial AB social class (62-38 per cent) tend to be more assiduous voters than those with GCSEs at most (68-32 per cent for “out”) and semi- and unskilled DE workers (63-37 per cent).
RYH64E said:
REALIST123 said:
My experience tells me that there are far too many people on this country incapable of rational thought and of making a conscious decision on any important matter; but they will vote and will be influenced by the likes of Cameron and, more so, Corbyn and Obama.
Do you really think that those on the remain side are incapable of rational thought?turbobloke said:
The comment from REALIST123 was that, in their view based on their experience, there are far too many - rather than 'those on the remain side' i.e. all.
As usual, you're splitting hairs. The better educated (university) and successful (social class AB, professional and managerial) tend to favour 'remain', those with nothing more than GCSE's and those in social classes C2 and DE tend to favour 'leave'. In my limited experience I tend to find the former more capable of rational thought than the latter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/21/eu-refe...
Telegraph said:
University educated people are most likely to want to stay in the EU
When it comes to social class and education, those who went to university are most likely to be pro-EU - with seven out of ten UK graduates wishing to remain in Europe, according to the polls.
Those belonging to the AB social class - usually in higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations - support the EU by 62 to 38 per cent.
Meanwhile, people in the lower C2 and DE social grades have net dissatisfaction with the institution. Ukip has attempted to re-brand itself as a party for the working class, and so it will try and boost turnout in this eurosceptic group.
When it comes to social class and education, those who went to university are most likely to be pro-EU - with seven out of ten UK graduates wishing to remain in Europe, according to the polls.
Those belonging to the AB social class - usually in higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations - support the EU by 62 to 38 per cent.
Meanwhile, people in the lower C2 and DE social grades have net dissatisfaction with the institution. Ukip has attempted to re-brand itself as a party for the working class, and so it will try and boost turnout in this eurosceptic group.
RYH64E said:
turbobloke said:
The comment from REALIST123 was that, in their view based on their experience, there are far too many - rather than 'those on the remain side' i.e. all.
As usual, you're splitting hairs. The better educated (university) and successful (social class AB, professional and managerial) tend to favour 'remain', those with nothing more than GCSE's and those in social classes C2 and DE tend to favour 'leave'. In my limited experience I tend to find the former more capable of rational thought than the latter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/21/eu-refe...
Telegraph said:
University educated people are most likely to want to stay in the EU
When it comes to social class and education, those who went to university are most likely to be pro-EU - with seven out of ten UK graduates wishing to remain in Europe, according to the polls.
Those belonging to the AB social class - usually in higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations - support the EU by 62 to 38 per cent.
Meanwhile, people in the lower C2 and DE social grades have net dissatisfaction with the institution. Ukip has attempted to re-brand itself as a party for the working class, and so it will try and boost turnout in this eurosceptic group.
When it comes to social class and education, those who went to university are most likely to be pro-EU - with seven out of ten UK graduates wishing to remain in Europe, according to the polls.
Those belonging to the AB social class - usually in higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations - support the EU by 62 to 38 per cent.
Meanwhile, people in the lower C2 and DE social grades have net dissatisfaction with the institution. Ukip has attempted to re-brand itself as a party for the working class, and so it will try and boost turnout in this eurosceptic group.
Funkycoldribena said:
Shows you can be very bright in one area of life but very dim in others.
Not really, no. We're not talking nerdy professors here who never step outside the library, we're by and large talking about professional people who are well educated and have been successful in life. It's not saying there aren't valid arguments for the leave side, but to assume that on average the smartest people in the country are all making the same wrong decision is a bit daft.
Mario149 said:
It's not saying there aren't valid arguments for the leave side, but to assume that on average the smartest people in the country are all making the same wrong decision is a bit daft.
I don't think it is.You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.
Funkycoldribena said:
I don't think it is.
You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.
Because for many of us it's a more complex argument than that, there are pros and cons to eu membership and for me at least the economic factors are more important than any concerns I may have about sovereignty, immigration and waste. I'm not at all reassured by the platitudes offered by the leave side, I'll vote for the safe option of remain.You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.
Funkycoldribena said:
I don't think it is.
You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.
I think it's comments like this that throw some light on why the results from opinion polls you see on various web forums don't reflect reality. I can see both sides of the aguement but too many of those who want to leave resort to the more personal dig approach, which will just turn off a load of people from participating in a debate, leaving just the vociferous minority. You've got to be pretty dumb to vote for an institution that wastes millions and ignores democracy.How the hell anyone with an ounce of brainpower would want more of it is bewildering.
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