Traffic Management: politics & ideology defeat logic. News?!
Discussion
The sheer wasted time and money inflicted by these fools and, to rub salt into the wounds, occupying cushy jobs paid for by us, is just inexcusable. Add to that ever reducing and thus stupidly low speed limits, enforced by yet more unnecessary jobs filled by the otherwise unemployable. If we lived in a place where we could vote these fools out all would be fine, but a bit more of a axe to these jobs wouldn't be a bad idea. It's clear 'the cuts' are not nearly deep enough, if we can continue to employ people who do nothing but make matters worse with their left leaning ideologies.
turbobloke said:
hairyben said:
Then when you get there you can't park because of more anti-motorist BS- tradies like me are employing people to drive their vans round the block all day while they're on a job as it's easier than trying to jump through the hoops required to park the thing!
Jeez! That's bad, I stopped using London venues for conferencing and F2F training well over a decade ago; that experience is far worse than anything I experienced back in the day. I've already mentioned the phenomenon of cars circulating to find one of the few free parking spaces that may exist in the ever fewer free parking sites, but circulating all day because it's impossible to park is a massive indictment of the anti-car anti-enterprise intelligent fools in TfL and elswhere (that's not aimed at any individual).the absolute monumentally blinkered, hypocritical self destructive nonsense and epic corruption that this is, I wonder that we're a society in it's final days I really do.
Edited by hairyben on Sunday 7th February 17:56
hairyben said:
turbobloke said:
hairyben said:
Then when you get there you can't park because of more anti-motorist BS- tradies like me are employing people to drive their vans round the block all day while they're on a job as it's easier than trying to jump through the hoops required to park the thing!
Jeez! That's bad, I stopped using London venues for conferencing and F2F training well over a decade ago; that experience is far worse than anything I experienced back in the day. I've already mentioned the phenomenon of cars circulating to find one of the few free parking spaces that may exist in the ever fewer free parking sites, but circulating all day because it's impossible to park is a massive indictment of the anti-car anti-enterprise intelligent fools in TfL and elswhere (that's not aimed at any individual).the absolute monumentally blinkered, hypocritical self destructive nonsense that this is, I wonder that we're a society in it's final days I really do.
Another friend in the email address list mentioned a quote only an hour or so ago in their reply, attributed as below - it's a belter.
Kristine Beuret said:
Take away the parking space at the end of the journey and you take away the car journey.
http://www.transport-associates.net/memberDetails.php?memberID=8glazbagun said:
Noticed this at a huge roundabout in Watford. The lights and road markings were both being redone and everyone just gave way to the right and it was fine. Then the lightsbwere installed and it was tailbacks in four directions!
I guess you mean the Dome roundabout. Lately I've noticed traffic there is worse than it's ever been. There is a queue all day long down the A41 now when there didn't used to be during the day time. Have they changed the phasing there now or something?Traffic management??? More like deliberate Traffic hindrance by the lefties and greens.
Our small town has done more to hinder the free movement of people and vehicles and has just won an EU "green" award. All traffic lights into town are switched to a very long red phase, some have green phases which let only 4 cars or 1 lorry through.... They removed bus stop bays and place bus stops opposite each other so ALL traffic stops when these stinking vehicles pick up the 1 person waiting.....all in the name of reducing emissions and increasing public interest in overpriced and highly inneficient public transport.
They have taken bicycle paths from a 5m wide pavement in one street where there is little or no pedestrian traffic, put them into the road (2m wide), removed the centre white line... results traffic jams at all times as people seem to think the dotted line separating the highway from the cycle area cannot be crossed. Green success due to drivers ignorance!
What takes me now 10 minutes to get to work (leaving town to a small village) takes 30 minutes in the other direction, and over 1 hour (for 5 kms) by bus (with a change of busses), and that only once an hour. According to the greenslime who are now running Baden Württemberg with the socialists, this is an acceptable journey time... What feckin world do these idiots live in?
Our small town has done more to hinder the free movement of people and vehicles and has just won an EU "green" award. All traffic lights into town are switched to a very long red phase, some have green phases which let only 4 cars or 1 lorry through.... They removed bus stop bays and place bus stops opposite each other so ALL traffic stops when these stinking vehicles pick up the 1 person waiting.....all in the name of reducing emissions and increasing public interest in overpriced and highly inneficient public transport.
They have taken bicycle paths from a 5m wide pavement in one street where there is little or no pedestrian traffic, put them into the road (2m wide), removed the centre white line... results traffic jams at all times as people seem to think the dotted line separating the highway from the cycle area cannot be crossed. Green success due to drivers ignorance!
What takes me now 10 minutes to get to work (leaving town to a small village) takes 30 minutes in the other direction, and over 1 hour (for 5 kms) by bus (with a change of busses), and that only once an hour. According to the greenslime who are now running Baden Württemberg with the socialists, this is an acceptable journey time... What feckin world do these idiots live in?
Can well believe it
You'd think back handers were rife in the traffic light industry they festoon junctions and roundabouts with so many of them. I mean on the new road out to the A456 in Notts, past part of the Trent Uni campus, there's loads! On a rainy night when the tarmac turns into a mirror the myriad of laser bright traffic lights makes it quite difficult to see whats going on. I mean you don't need about 4 sets of lights on one roundabout entry.
In loughborough they seemed to spend a while doing traffic surveys, even turning the lights off on the roundabout at the university entrance. Worked well I thought, so well they decided to uproot the roundabout further up, next to the tennis centre and then relay it with a generous portion of traffic lights; traffic light on the way round, traffic lights on every entrance and exit. Forgetting of course they already had crossing lights in very close proximity to the original roundabout (which they left in place). It just seems so utterly pointless and smacks of money having to be spent in order to have the budget next year (which is an idiotic way to work).
You'd think back handers were rife in the traffic light industry they festoon junctions and roundabouts with so many of them. I mean on the new road out to the A456 in Notts, past part of the Trent Uni campus, there's loads! On a rainy night when the tarmac turns into a mirror the myriad of laser bright traffic lights makes it quite difficult to see whats going on. I mean you don't need about 4 sets of lights on one roundabout entry.
In loughborough they seemed to spend a while doing traffic surveys, even turning the lights off on the roundabout at the university entrance. Worked well I thought, so well they decided to uproot the roundabout further up, next to the tennis centre and then relay it with a generous portion of traffic lights; traffic light on the way round, traffic lights on every entrance and exit. Forgetting of course they already had crossing lights in very close proximity to the original roundabout (which they left in place). It just seems so utterly pointless and smacks of money having to be spent in order to have the budget next year (which is an idiotic way to work).
wc98 said:
Jasandjules said:
I truly believe that over the last 20 years the sole aim of Traffic Policy has been to make using a personal car awful.
this 100%The latest genius idea, under the much vaunted "City Deal" programme, is to close parts of the Ring Road during rush hour.
Europa1 said:
wc98 said:
Jasandjules said:
I truly believe that over the last 20 years the sole aim of Traffic Policy has been to make using a personal car awful.
this 100%The latest genius idea, under the much vaunted "City Deal" programme, is to close parts of the Ring Road during rush hour.
As for the whole Policy thing of making the experience of using a car awful, that is just paranoia. Look at the number of cars we as a nation have to fit in the available space. But no, it's deliberate, and they're all out to get you, specifically you, to make your driving experience awful.
OpulentBob said:
As for the whole Policy thing of making the experience of using a car awful, that is just paranoia. Look at the number of cars we as a nation have to fit in the available space. But no, it's deliberate, and they're all out to get you, specifically you, to make your driving experience awful.
how do you explain built-out bus stops. Theres loads that prevent cars behind safely passing where the roads otherwise wide enough, but other busses get caught up and delayed in the chaos too so the only net result is delays for everyone.If it was just catastrophic stupidity on the part of local authorities (which I can believe) they'd still get some road schemes right, but every junction they touch gets f
ked up worse than it was before. And today news, cycle lane on westway. What the actual dithering fk? hairyben said:
OpulentBob said:
As for the whole Policy thing of making the experience of using a car awful, that is just paranoia. Look at the number of cars we as a nation have to fit in the available space. But no, it's deliberate, and they're all out to get you, specifically you, to make your driving experience awful.
how do you explain built-out bus stops. Theres loads that prevent cars behind safely passing where the roads otherwise wide enough, but other busses get caught up and delayed in the chaos too so the only net result is delays for everyone.If it was just catastrophic stupidity on the part of local authorities (which I can believe) they'd still get some road schemes right, but every junction they touch gets f
ked up worse than it was before. And today news, cycle lane on westway. What the actual dithering fk? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/mayor-pla...
king arthur said:
glazbagun said:
Noticed this at a huge roundabout in Watford. The lights and road markings were both being redone and everyone just gave way to the right and it was fine. Then the lightsbwere installed and it was tailbacks in four directions!
I guess you mean the Dome roundabout. Lately I've noticed traffic there is worse than it's ever been. There is a queue all day long down the A41 now when there didn't used to be during the day time. Have they changed the phasing there now or something?I ended up 20mins late for work the day they switched it on! Just as bad as the lights is the way they've laid out the markings. So rather than a spiral that keeps you in land all the way to your destination, you arrive at a set of traffic lights in the wrong lane and have to change as soon as the lights go, meaning you get cut up loads. Was glad to see the back of it and spent a whole night with the satnav out on the roads to find the best means of avoiding it.
http://m.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/12919037._Disa...__motorists_and_politicians_blast_traffic_lightchaos_/
No doubt all these schemes are designed using computer models and traffic simulations, forgetting all the while that such things are generally an approximation and do not represent the real world.
Happens in plenty of other places too (climate modelling for instance). People just get so wrapped up in these things they believe they're infallible; they believe the models hook, line and sinker. There's a reason computational fluid dynamics (CFD) can be jokingly referred to as colours for directors. Pretty pictures to please those who know nothing.
I bet all these traffic schemes work a dream on the computer. It just all falls apart when you stick a load of real humans on it.
Happens in plenty of other places too (climate modelling for instance). People just get so wrapped up in these things they believe they're infallible; they believe the models hook, line and sinker. There's a reason computational fluid dynamics (CFD) can be jokingly referred to as colours for directors. Pretty pictures to please those who know nothing.
I bet all these traffic schemes work a dream on the computer. It just all falls apart when you stick a load of real humans on it.
turbobloke said:
Firstly the people making a journey are better placed to determine the mode of transport that best meets their needs.....
Individual actions can't dictate policy (in anything, not just transport). For that we, as an advanced society, employ clever people to make and enforce policy on our behalf. We trust that they make decisions that take into account our personal decisions on mode of transport, but plainly not everyone can get their way 100% of the time.The problem is that those clever people are employed by less clever politicians!
Roy Lime said:
davepoth said:
It looks like the road trough the middle of Poynton is not far off a trunk road judging by the number of trucks involved. It's not a sensible choice for shared space as a result.
It's the main Manchester to Macclesfield route (A523). What the council has done is abject stupidity. Shared space as a concept might be appropriate for Poynton's shopping street, Park Lane (a quiet little thoroughfare that runs off into the countryside), but certainly not for the junction in question. Most of those who use it regularly hate it.Otispunkmeyer said:
I bet all these traffic schemes work a dream on the computer. It just all falls apart when you stick a load of real humans on it.
A very good point. Which reminds me of Suffolk. Quite a few years ago, they went in for a blanket reduction in speed limits across the piece. The next year, the number of road fatalities increased. However a computer model run by academics hired by Suffolk said that roads were safer under the new regime. A district Coroner at inquest laid part of the blame for road deaths he was presiding over on the too-low limits.oyster said:
turbobloke said:
Firstly the people making a journey are better placed to determine the mode of transport that best meets their needs.....
Individual actions can't dictate policy (in anything, not just transport). For that we, as an advanced society, employ clever people to make and enforce policy on our behalf. We trust that they make decisions that take into account our personal decisions on mode of transport, but plainly not everyone can get their way 100% of the time.oyster said:
The problem is that those clever people are employed by less clever politicians!
Agreed! And even if they are clever - some must be, based on the law of percentages - they need to have wisdom as well as intelligence to do the job well.OpulentBob said:
As for the whole Policy thing of making the experience of using a car awful, that is just paranoia. Look at the number of cars we as a nation have to fit in the available space. But no, it's deliberate, and they're all out to get you, specifically you, to make your driving experience awful.
Well, let's consider a few things.1. Speed limits on perfectly good roads are being reduced.
2. Speed cameras then appear by magic upon those roads
3. Roundabouts get traffic lights put on them, which then means you get stuck in the wrong lane on the roundabout
4. Roundabouts get zebra crossings and traffic lights on the exits. This means people have to stop hard and fast on the roundabout which blocks it
5. Parking spaces for new property is being reduced
6. Traffic lights now have a significantly higher time on red
7. Many lovely routes in my area are being turned into bus/taxi lanes. Meaning the rest of us have to travel a couple of miles further
8. Speed humps everywhere
9. Many traffic lights now have cycle priority boxes in front, meaning the lycra tw**s block the whole road and when the lights go green, no f***er can actually move off at speed and get going because lycra wa***er is swerving around.
Those are just to be getting on with...... I have more.....
All that jazz said:
The signs are temporarily blacked out due to the drainage works going on at Chain Bar roundabout which has lanes closed off reducing capacity. They opened up the 2+ lane for the M62 to relieve the queues at peak periods from Bradford. Once the work is complete it will go back to being a 2+ lane. I know all this because I'm currently working on the project at Chain Bar. 
Personally I think the 2+ lane should be open to all traffic as it would greatly reduce congestion at peak periods as most of the traffic is heading for the M62 east.
Most users of Chain Bar have said that from the beginning. That 2+ lane should have been there for all vehicles, especially to avoid big wagons having to stop at the lights and then set off again. It's certainly making my daily journey round Chain Bar much easier at the moment, so long may it continue. Whether it's causing chaos on the M62 towards J27, I don't know.Personally I think the 2+ lane should be open to all traffic as it would greatly reduce congestion at peak periods as most of the traffic is heading for the M62 east.
Jazzy, if you know anyone on the site well enough to ask, is there any reason there is a line of cones down the middle of the A58 towards Leeds? They don't half gum things up in an evening, and impatient vehicles are taking to the pavement to get through on the inside, and the verge outside Starbucks is a complete quagmire. The cones don't appear to be doing anything useful. They were taken down for the Christmas break and it improved things no end. Cheers!
All that jazz said:
Wills2 said:
Turning left on a red light would be a start.
Bus lanes, all they seem to do in my local area is cut the available road capacity by 50% at the most important times delaying everyone's journey, haven't they realised we're not getting out of our cars and on the buses yet?
Same with the silly 2+ lanes they put in Leeds and on the M606 again they just managed to create more delays with no one in any meaningful way changing their habits, they have even blacked out the signs on the M606 so another utter waste of everyone's time and money.
They created a one system in a Otley that lasted a few weeks until they saw what utter chaos they had caused and changed it back, but never mind plenty more money where that came from.
The signs are temporarily blacked out due to the drainage works going on at Chain Bar roundabout which has lanes closed off reducing capacity. They opened up the 2+ lane for the M62 to relieve the queues at peak periods from Bradford. Once the work is complete it will go back to being a 2+ lane. I know all this because I'm currently working on the project at Chain Bar. Bus lanes, all they seem to do in my local area is cut the available road capacity by 50% at the most important times delaying everyone's journey, haven't they realised we're not getting out of our cars and on the buses yet?
Same with the silly 2+ lanes they put in Leeds and on the M606 again they just managed to create more delays with no one in any meaningful way changing their habits, they have even blacked out the signs on the M606 so another utter waste of everyone's time and money.
They created a one system in a Otley that lasted a few weeks until they saw what utter chaos they had caused and changed it back, but never mind plenty more money where that came from.
Personally I think the 2+ lane should be open to all traffic as it would greatly reduce congestion at peak periods as most of the traffic is heading for the M62 east.
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