If all the passengers ran to the back of a 'plane...

[DrTre]

What would happen?
Nothing?
Bad things?

Sake of argument an a320 type.
200 people?

[paolow]

DrTre said:

What would happen?
Nothing?
Bad things?

Sake of argument an a320 type.
200 people?

Well IIRC an A320 weighs in at 50 tons - and if that many pax did rush to the back it would mean a shift of about 15 tons to the rear which is a big shift of total weight to say the least. Im going with b) bad things.....

[Kermit power]

I'm sure I remember reading something a few years back where Lufthansa asked a fat bloke to move to the other side of a plane because of weight balance issues??

[IanCress]

Would the resultant shift in weight be beyond what the plane could cope with, or would it just be a case of re-trimming?

Also, if it happened on the ground, could the passengers tail-tip the plane?

[Dr Jekyll]

That would be bad for two reasons. Not only would putting the centre of gravity outside limits could possibly cause a loss of control or at best limit the pilot's options. But putting the c of g so far back would reduce the leverage of the tail, making control even harder. So at best safety margins would be reduced.

[R8Steve]

There's a video on youtube of cargo shifting to the back of a cargo plane when it is taking off.

It doesn't end well. I would search for it and post it but as it involves people dying i'd rather not.

[Shaw Tarse]

It would fall off the conveyor belt.

[Shaw Tarse]

Kermit power said:

I'm sure I remember reading something a few years back where Lufthansa asked a fat bloke to move to the other side of a plane because of weight balance issues??

I was asked to move to the other side on a narrow boat

[Simpo Two]

In practice I don't think everyone could 'go to the back' because there wouldn't be room for them all.

[A10]

R8Steve said:

There's a video on youtube of cargo shifting to the back of a cargo plane when it is taking off.

It doesn't end well. I would search for it and post it but as it involves people dying i'd rather not.

Bagram airbase 747 one? Well it would answer the OP's question I guess.

[hornetrider]

R8Steve said:

There's a video on youtube of cargo shifting to the back of a cargo plane when it is taking off.

It doesn't end well. I would search for it and post it but as it involves people dying i'd rather not.

The 747 at Bagram? Horrific.

[DrTre]

IanCress said:

Would the resultant shift in weight be beyond what the plane could cope with, or would it just be a case of re-trimming?

Also, if it happened on the ground, could the passengers tail-tip the plane?

That's what I was meaning, along with would auto pilot be able to cope?

Dr Jekyll said:

That would be bad for two reasons. Not only would putting the centre of gravity outside limits could possibly cause a loss of control or at best limit the pilot's options. But putting the c of g so far back would reduce the leverage of the tail, making control even harder. So at best safety margins would be reduced.

Okie doke, thanks.

Thanks for the notice about the 747 accident video r8steve. Like you, if it's got fatalities then I'll skip it.

[xjay1337]

It's on Youtube if you type in 747 Bagram.

I think it depends... if you are at 30,000 and everyone runs to the back, you will be ok, if you are 20 seconds after Rotate then you will probably crash.

[R8Steve]

hornetrider said:

R8Steve said:

There's a video on youtube of cargo shifting to the back of a cargo plane when it is taking off.

It doesn't end well. I would search for it and post it but as it involves people dying i'd rather not.

The 747 at Bagram? Horrific.

That's the one. Probably an extreme example as it was ascending at a much higher rate than any commercial plane would due to where it was but it shows what a sudden shift in weight on a plane can do.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Depends on the size of the plane. A large passenger aircraft, 747, A380 etc. All the passenger running towards the back will affect trim etc. but not control threatening. A small aircraft will probably result in loss of control.

In this case they all ran to the front, and it ended badly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaan...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 9th February 11:05

[IanCress]

Didn't the investigation in to the Bagram incident find that the cargo had punctured the rear bulkhead and stretched / damage the control cables? The cargo hadn't actually moved that far.

[Boatbuoy]

R8Steve said:

hornetrider said:

R8Steve said:

There's a video on youtube of cargo shifting to the back of a cargo plane when it is taking off.

It doesn't end well. I would search for it and post it but as it involves people dying i'd rather not.

The 747 at Bagram? Horrific.

That's the one. Probably an extreme example as it was ascending at a much higher rate than any commercial plane would due to where it was but it shows what a sudden shift in weight on a plane can do.

The Bagram 747 incident isn't an exact representation of the answer to the OP's question. Some time ago the accident report was discussed on here. It described how the load shifted, critically affecting the horizontal stabilizer systems as it did so.

Therefore, not only was the aircaft balance aft biased, but the elevators were jammed at the point of rotation. There was nothing the crew could do from that point on.

Edited by Boatbuoy on Tuesday 9th February 11:18

[tight5]

This scenario sounds a bit like -

[griffdude]

IanCress said:

Also, if it happened on the ground, could the passengers tail-tip the plane?

Yes, on certain types. I used to fly the B757-300 & we always boarded the 1st 12(ish- it was ages ago) rows first to prevent tipping.The B757-200 doesn't suffer from this phenomenon.

[Eric Mc]

Nose wheel types can suffer tail-sit syndrome. Some aircraft used to come with a tail prop to prevent this, such as the Canberra or the C-54/DC-4 -