991 C2s vs F10 M5
Discussion
Following on from a separate thread where I have mentioned traction (or lack of) in the M5 in all but ideal conditions. I have the M5 for another year, but when I do replace it, one of the cars I am considering is a 991 C2S. I was wondering if anyone has owned both and could summarise how they compare generally, and regarding traction. One of the things I have read about 911s is their ability to fire out of corners because of the weight over rear wheels. I don't think I can stretch to a C4S.
mjw0321 said:
Following on from a separate thread where I have mentioned traction (or lack of) in the M5 in all but ideal conditions. I have the M5 for another year, but when I do replace it, one of the cars I am considering is a 991 C2S. I was wondering if anyone has owned both and could summarise how they compare generally, and regarding traction. One of the things I have read about 911s is their ability to fire out of corners because of the weight over rear wheels. I don't think I can stretch to a C4S.
Sorry fella, i've never owned a Porsche however like yourself i'm considering moving to a Porsche when i'm done with my F10 M5.W8PMC said:
mjw0321 said:
Following on from a separate thread where I have mentioned traction (or lack of) in the M5 in all but ideal conditions. I have the M5 for another year, but when I do replace it, one of the cars I am considering is a 991 C2S. I was wondering if anyone has owned both and could summarise how they compare generally, and regarding traction. One of the things I have read about 911s is their ability to fire out of corners because of the weight over rear wheels. I don't think I can stretch to a C4S.
Sorry fella, i've never owned a Porsche however like yourself i'm considering moving to a Porsche when i'm done with my F10 M5.mjw0321 said:
I have a number of cars on my list of considerations as mentioned in this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157... but I think the 991 is one of the front runners at the moment.
Nothing on that list apart from the 991 or M6GC would i consider. The AMG is a step down in virtually every category other than sound (albeit the coin refresh has improved things), the GT-R is a one trick pony, albeit a very fast one trick pony but you'll very quickly miss the German build quality & luxuries, the RS7 is very marmite & to be honest only has a face a mother could love, however certainly an accomplished GT car, the Maser (see AMG), no idea on the Evora but that really is in a different class to the others you mention, Panamera could be interesting but if considering the Porsche route then surely the 991 is where to place to your money.W8PMC said:
mjw0321 said:
I have a number of cars on my list of considerations as mentioned in this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157... but I think the 991 is one of the front runners at the moment.
Nothing on that list apart from the 991 or M6GC would i consider. The AMG is a step down in virtually every category other than sound (albeit the coin refresh has improved things), the GT-R is a one trick pony, albeit a very fast one trick pony but you'll very quickly miss the German build quality & luxuries, the RS7 is very marmite & to be honest only has a face a mother could love, however certainly an accomplished GT car, the Maser (see AMG), no idea on the Evora but that really is in a different class to the others you mention, Panamera could be interesting but if considering the Porsche route then surely the 991 is where to place to your money.Any thoughts on the Jag XJR? http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2668162
I've owned two 911's, a 996 and a 997 but have driven a 991 quite extensively over the last few years.
The 911 will always have a special place with most drivers however I really, really don't like the Porsche dealer network and to the point I refuse to buy another car from them currently. The cars are without doubt overpriced, there's little or no discount and once the car is out of the factory warranty you literally can't touch anything on the car if you wish to keep the extended warranty in place (not even clear film on the paint for example, that voids the entire warranty).
The two cars drive totally differently and I would wager the M5 is significantly faster than the 991 on a runway. However the 991 is a lot more nimble and you feel as if you are part of the car rather than sitting in the car (if that makes sense). The cars don't bite as people suggest unless you are trying to explore the outer regions of the laws of physics. I've driven my 997 at Goodwood as fast as I can (around 1:30 per lap) and the car had so much more to give a better driver than myself that's for sure. Drive like a nutter on wet damp cold days and frankly any car will bite and you deserve to fall off the road, the 911 will probably bite quicker than most! The steering on the 991 differed to that on the 997 but to be honest it felt fine to me albeit some complain its lost some of the feel. The PDK box is also a peach and if you like the M5 box, you'll love the PDK box that's for sure
The interior of the 911 is OK. I've always felt (especially with the 997) the ICE is dated and anything of any note is an 'extra'. It was almost as if Porsche concentrated on the driving and grip and forgot you actually may need to make a call or hear some music on your travels or have auto lights etc.
I understand that aspect is improving and on the latest models the ICE is up there with the best and you get some goodies included in the list price.
To sum up, I think the car is a great package and improving that's for sure however as I mentioned I won't have another Porsche for a long time (if ever). I have had three in total (first was a new Boxster) and I got bored with my 997 after 12 months and sold it the to 991 Virgin on a wet Monday morning.......I haven't missed it since.
You could say it's a one trick racehorse and if you like the Derby, you'll probably like the 991 but I feel there are better out there for the money.
The 911 will always have a special place with most drivers however I really, really don't like the Porsche dealer network and to the point I refuse to buy another car from them currently. The cars are without doubt overpriced, there's little or no discount and once the car is out of the factory warranty you literally can't touch anything on the car if you wish to keep the extended warranty in place (not even clear film on the paint for example, that voids the entire warranty).
The two cars drive totally differently and I would wager the M5 is significantly faster than the 991 on a runway. However the 991 is a lot more nimble and you feel as if you are part of the car rather than sitting in the car (if that makes sense). The cars don't bite as people suggest unless you are trying to explore the outer regions of the laws of physics. I've driven my 997 at Goodwood as fast as I can (around 1:30 per lap) and the car had so much more to give a better driver than myself that's for sure. Drive like a nutter on wet damp cold days and frankly any car will bite and you deserve to fall off the road, the 911 will probably bite quicker than most! The steering on the 991 differed to that on the 997 but to be honest it felt fine to me albeit some complain its lost some of the feel. The PDK box is also a peach and if you like the M5 box, you'll love the PDK box that's for sure
The interior of the 911 is OK. I've always felt (especially with the 997) the ICE is dated and anything of any note is an 'extra'. It was almost as if Porsche concentrated on the driving and grip and forgot you actually may need to make a call or hear some music on your travels or have auto lights etc.
I understand that aspect is improving and on the latest models the ICE is up there with the best and you get some goodies included in the list price.To sum up, I think the car is a great package and improving that's for sure however as I mentioned I won't have another Porsche for a long time (if ever). I have had three in total (first was a new Boxster) and I got bored with my 997 after 12 months and sold it the to 991 Virgin on a wet Monday morning.......I haven't missed it since.
You could say it's a one trick racehorse and if you like the Derby, you'll probably like the 991 but I feel there are better out there for the money.
mjw0321 said:
I think I probably agree on most of that, but still need to try them all. Why do you think the AMG is step down? Have you driven the new one? I think there Evora 400 is an interesting car; it is faster than the evora S, sounds good, build quality is better than before and handling might be the best of all.
Any thoughts on the Jag XJR? http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2668162
I've not driven the new AMG C or E but did try both a couple of years ago when i chose the M5.Any thoughts on the Jag XJR? http://used.jaguar.co.uk/search#/details/2668162
If what i've read is to be believed, both are a step up from the cars they replace, but then i guess the F10 is now 5yrs old & being replaced next year so the bar will move again. The transmission in the AMG i hear isn't the best & outclassed by the M-DCT & the engine although better is still lacking the sparkle of the M5, however it again has improved. The noise is of course significantly better than the BMW, but for me (this may be a personal thing), i still see the Merc's as being a touch middle/old aged & i'm in my mid 40's, whereas Audi & BMW come across as being that little more dynamic with their offerings.
I've no experience with anything Jaguar related.
HoHoHo said:
I've owned two 911's, a 996 and a 997 but have driven a 991 quite extensively over the last few years.
The 911 will always have a special place with most drivers however I really, really don't like the Porsche dealer network and to the point I refuse to buy another car from them currently. The cars are without doubt overpriced, there's little or no discount and once the car is out of the factory warranty you literally can't touch anything on the car if you wish to keep the extended warranty in place (not even clear film on the paint for example, that voids the entire warranty).
The two cars drive totally differently and I would wager the M5 is significantly faster than the 991 on a runway. However the 991 is a lot more nimble and you feel as if you are part of the car rather than sitting in the car (if that makes sense). The cars don't bite as people suggest unless you are trying to explore the outer regions of the laws of physics. I've driven my 997 at Goodwood as fast as I can (around 1:30 per lap) and the car had so much more to give a better driver than myself that's for sure. Drive like a nutter on wet damp cold days and frankly any car will bite and you deserve to fall off the road, the 911 will probably bite quicker than most! The steering on the 991 differed to that on the 997 but to be honest it felt fine to me albeit some complain its lost some of the feel. The PDK box is also a peach and if you like the M5 box, you'll love the PDK box that's for sure
The interior of the 911 is OK. I've always felt (especially with the 997) the ICE is dated and anything of any note is an 'extra'. It was almost as if Porsche concentrated on the driving and grip and forgot you actually may need to make a call or hear some music on your travels or have auto lights etc. I understand that aspect is improving and on the latest models the ICE is up there with the best and you get some goodies included in the list price.
To sum up, I think the car is a great package and improving that's for sure however as I mentioned I won't have another Porsche for a long time (if ever). I have had three in total (first was a new Boxster) and I got bored with my 997 after 12 months and sold it the to 991 Virgin on a wet Monday morning.......I haven't missed it since.
You could say it's a one trick racehorse and if you like the Derby, you'll probably like the 991 but I feel there are better out there for the money.
Thanks for the opinion. I assume, from what you have said, you can't put a colour wrap on the car either, which is a bit of a disappointment and limits the colour choice when you buy, because you have to live with the original colour. I had heard they were strict, but that is ridiculous. The 911 will always have a special place with most drivers however I really, really don't like the Porsche dealer network and to the point I refuse to buy another car from them currently. The cars are without doubt overpriced, there's little or no discount and once the car is out of the factory warranty you literally can't touch anything on the car if you wish to keep the extended warranty in place (not even clear film on the paint for example, that voids the entire warranty).
The two cars drive totally differently and I would wager the M5 is significantly faster than the 991 on a runway. However the 991 is a lot more nimble and you feel as if you are part of the car rather than sitting in the car (if that makes sense). The cars don't bite as people suggest unless you are trying to explore the outer regions of the laws of physics. I've driven my 997 at Goodwood as fast as I can (around 1:30 per lap) and the car had so much more to give a better driver than myself that's for sure. Drive like a nutter on wet damp cold days and frankly any car will bite and you deserve to fall off the road, the 911 will probably bite quicker than most! The steering on the 991 differed to that on the 997 but to be honest it felt fine to me albeit some complain its lost some of the feel. The PDK box is also a peach and if you like the M5 box, you'll love the PDK box that's for sure
The interior of the 911 is OK. I've always felt (especially with the 997) the ICE is dated and anything of any note is an 'extra'. It was almost as if Porsche concentrated on the driving and grip and forgot you actually may need to make a call or hear some music on your travels or have auto lights etc.
I understand that aspect is improving and on the latest models the ICE is up there with the best and you get some goodies included in the list price.To sum up, I think the car is a great package and improving that's for sure however as I mentioned I won't have another Porsche for a long time (if ever). I have had three in total (first was a new Boxster) and I got bored with my 997 after 12 months and sold it the to 991 Virgin on a wet Monday morning.......I haven't missed it since.
You could say it's a one trick racehorse and if you like the Derby, you'll probably like the 991 but I feel there are better out there for the money.
mjw0321 said:
Thanks for the opinion. I assume, from what you have said, you can't put a colour wrap on the car either, which is a bit of a disappointment and limits the colour choice when you buy, because you have to live with the original colour. I had heard they were strict, but that is ridiculous.
Certainly my experience is that you can't even fit a non-opc battery without affecting the warranty!A wrap on a car with the extended warranty is a no no
Doesn't matter if the radio fails, the wrap voids the warranty.Stupid and short sighted.
I went from an F10 M5 into a 991 C4S with Powerkit, the 911 was great off the line and through the corners, but once moving the M5 is much quicker.... The 911 made a nicer noise and I found myself taking the long way home through the lanes.
Very different to the M5 and if you don't need the space IMHO a great daily drive!
Very different to the M5 and if you don't need the space IMHO a great daily drive!
w5pwr said:
I went from an F10 M5 into a 991 C4S with Powerkit, the 911 was great off the line and through the corners, but once moving the M5 is much quicker.... The 911 made a nicer noise and I found myself taking the long way home through the lanes.
Very different to the M5 and if you don't need the space IMHO a great daily drive!
If only I could afford a turbo s!Very different to the M5 and if you don't need the space IMHO a great daily drive!
HoHoHo said:
mjw0321 said:
Thanks for the opinion. I assume, from what you have said, you can't put a colour wrap on the car either, which is a bit of a disappointment and limits the colour choice when you buy, because you have to live with the original colour. I had heard they were strict, but that is ridiculous.
Certainly my experience is that you can't even fit a non-opc battery without affecting the warranty!A wrap on a car with the extended warranty is a no no
Doesn't matter if the radio fails, the wrap voids the warranty.Stupid and short sighted.
If you spec competition pack you get a slightly different exhaust - not sure how much better it sounds.
Alternatively there's the BMW provided M Performance setup which is just the rebranded Akravovic titanium system at a slight premium, I think its about £7k, but that will preserve your warranty. You'd also hope to get something back on if when selling if you have space to store the original.
Alternatively there's the BMW provided M Performance setup which is just the rebranded Akravovic titanium system at a slight premium, I think its about £7k, but that will preserve your warranty. You'd also hope to get something back on if when selling if you have space to store the original.
theboss said:
If you spec competition pack you get a slightly different exhaust - not sure how much better it sounds.
Alternatively there's the BMW provided M Performance setup which is just the rebranded Akravovic titanium system at a slight premium, I think its about £7k, but that will preserve your warranty. You'd also hope to get something back on if when selling if you have space to store the original.
Thanks for the info. 7 grand is way more than I'd currently spend on an exhaust. Alternatively there's the BMW provided M Performance setup which is just the rebranded Akravovic titanium system at a slight premium, I think its about £7k, but that will preserve your warranty. You'd also hope to get something back on if when selling if you have space to store the original.
mjw0321 said:
Thanks for the info. 7 grand is way more than I'd currently spend on an exhaust.
Just so you know I'm getting the M Performance exhaust with carbon tips fitted Saturday, including fitting and my old exhaust delivered back to me for around £5400 all in off the top of my head.Still a lot of money of course but I think I could easily get £3500 for the exhaust once I come to sell the car, that's how I convinced myself to get it anyway
.Ben_g87 said:
Just so you know I'm getting the M Performance exhaust with carbon tips fitted Saturday, including fitting and my old exhaust delivered back to me for around £5400 all in off the top of my head.
Still a lot of money of course but I think I could easily get £3500 for the exhaust once I come to sell the car, that's how I convinced myself to get it anyway.
That's interesting - is that being supplied and fitted by a main dealer or an independent?Still a lot of money of course but I think I could easily get £3500 for the exhaust once I come to sell the car, that's how I convinced myself to get it anyway
.Will be good to get your feedback after tomorrow
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