EDF - Hinkley Point 'C'
Discussion
Cyder said:
Jesus Christ I do wish this country would just grow a spine and bash on a build s
t rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.
Thist rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.Why the f
k can't we just go ahead & do stuff FFS????The only people to 'gain' out of this are the lawyers
Biker 1 said:
Cyder said:
Jesus Christ I do wish this country would just grow a spine and bash on a build st rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.
Thist rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.Why the f
k can't we just go ahead & do stuff FFS????The only people to 'gain' out of this are the lawyers
Interesting reading from someone with a great deal of industry knowledge:
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2014/10/the-edf-hin...
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2016/05/to-hollow-l...
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2016/03/strategical...
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2014/10/the-edf-hin...
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2016/05/to-hollow-l...
http://www.cityunslicker.co.uk/2016/03/strategical...
CoolHands said:
Yes exactly. Putting up a third of the money.
Edf is 85% owned by French govt so basically the French and Chinese govts are paying for it. So why can't we pay for it ourselves? Smegging ridiculous.
Bizarre...something else that we were world leaders in and now dance to a.n.other's tune.Edf is 85% owned by French govt so basically the French and Chinese govts are paying for it. So why can't we pay for it ourselves? Smegging ridiculous.
Whilst we are on a whinge how about EDF 85% owned by French Govt...is that a subsidy by another name and not allowed within the EU...hence why we can't subsidise our industries such as Steel etc? ( until we Brexit of course
)Biker 1 said:
Cyder said:
Jesus Christ I do wish this country would just grow a spine and bash on a build st rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.
Thist rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.Why the f
k can't we just go ahead & do stuff FFS????The only people to 'gain' out of this are the lawyers
Go to Korea and they will show you cost data showing you that nuclear power is cheapest source of electricity.
The reason is because the state decided that they wanted nuclear, they bought their favorite plant design, they built one a year so they got proficient at building them and they used state finances so it was cheap.
The issue with UK politics is that while the government wants nuclear our political discourse is that the market solution is superior and that anything else is failure.
Therefore nuclear had to be privately funded, but it can't really be privately funded because no utility is big enough to take that financial risk. Hence to keep that privately funded tag we have to sign a long term power supply deal at a very high cost to induce the utility to take the risk and they need to get two states to agree to take the financial risk on their behalf.
The potential payoffs from the strike price and the lack of a local champion also means that we now have three projects with the different reactors coming to the UK.
The best way to drive costs is to have one plant design and keep building it.
The clean solution would be for the government to tender for the building of the plant, pick the best vendor and then fund the construction.
Once the plant was approaching completion they could then sell the plant or float it on the stock market. In all likelihood they would probably have been able to sell it at a profit.
But as I did earlier this didn't meet the political orthodoxy of the mid 2000's so would never fly. And now it's very difficult to back track.
IrateNinja said:
CoolHands said:
I'd rather pay the Japs than the fking French or Chinese. Who builds the Japs reactors - someone else or do they do it themselves?
You can have a choice of French, Canadian or American designs. What would be most palatable now you know the Japs have nothing to offer?king French or Chinese. Who builds the Japs reactors - someone else or do they do it themselves?alfie2244 said:
Bizarre...something else that we were world leaders in and now dance to a.n.other's tune.
Whilst we are on a whinge how about EDF 85% owned by French Govt...is that a subsidy by another name and not allowed within the EU...hence why we can't subsidise our industries such as Steel etc? ( until we Brexit of course)
It seems other countries consider EU directives more suggestions than actual rules to be slavishly followed.Whilst we are on a whinge how about EDF 85% owned by French Govt...is that a subsidy by another name and not allowed within the EU...hence why we can't subsidise our industries such as Steel etc? ( until we Brexit of course
)Good for them.
Considering successive UK governments track records on buggering up the simplest things - as laid out in this thread - I don't think we'll be that much better off out than in.
The only positive is Gordon Brown has apparently vanished off the face of the earth, so he can't do any more damage.
Talksteer said:
Biker 1 said:
Cyder said:
Jesus Christ I do wish this country would just grow a spine and bash on a build st rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.
Thist rather than spend years fannying and pissing even more money up the wall. See Heathrow runway 3, HS2 and all new road network projects.Why the f
k can't we just go ahead & do stuff FFS????The only people to 'gain' out of this are the lawyers
Go to Korea and they will show you cost data showing you that nuclear power is cheapest source of electricity.
The reason is because the state decided that they wanted nuclear, they bought their favorite plant design, they built one a year so they got proficient at building them and they used state finances so it was cheap.
The issue with UK politics is that while the government wants nuclear our political discourse is that the market solution is superior and that anything else is failure.
Therefore nuclear had to be privately funded, but it can't really be privately funded because no utility is big enough to take that financial risk. Hence to keep that privately funded tag we have to sign a long term power supply deal at a very high cost to induce the utility to take the risk and they need to get two states to agree to take the financial risk on their behalf.
The potential payoffs from the strike price and the lack of a local champion also means that we now have three projects with the different reactors coming to the UK.
The best way to drive costs is to have one plant design and keep building it.
The clean solution would be for the government to tender for the building of the plant, pick the best vendor and then fund the construction.
Once the plant was approaching completion they could then sell the plant or float it on the stock market. In all likelihood they would probably have been able to sell it at a profit.
But as I did earlier this didn't meet the political orthodoxy of the mid 2000's so would never fly. And now it's very difficult to back track.
Power stations are complex things but we still have a good source of reference from those already in operation/recently decommissioned. Although the latter not nuclear but we still have some operational ones.
If the government are going to back anything, it should be this.
paulrockliffe said:
The problem is that there are no grown ups on the horizon. I left school and spent a year at Sellafield before going University 16 years ago, they were working out where to put new nuclear build then, it had been urgently needed for a decade or two and something had to be done. Nothing has really happened since, we're 30 years past the point where this needed to start.
I've mentioned this before, but in 2000 we owned Westinghouse and could have done all this much simpler than now. Gordon Brown sold it off for pocket change to Hitachi. Westinghouse are filling China with AP1000s at £3bn a pop, money that could have been coming into the UK and talent that could have been building for years rather than the hot air we've had from Government instead.
Interesting post. Are Hitachi really plugging these into the grid for £3bn? How much is that per KWh?I've mentioned this before, but in 2000 we owned Westinghouse and could have done all this much simpler than now. Gordon Brown sold it off for pocket change to Hitachi. Westinghouse are filling China with AP1000s at £3bn a pop, money that could have been coming into the UK and talent that could have been building for years rather than the hot air we've had from Government instead.
And, of course, they don't have to spend years (and £££) listening to environmental protestors.
hidetheelephants said:
Talksteer said:
Go to Korea and they will show you cost data showing you that nuclear power is cheapest source of electricity.
What he said; they've cracked the cheap nuclear kettle conundrum, just like the french did in the 1970s, but then forgot it again in the 90s.Nuclear is easily the best solution; can we then chop the bastad windmills down that blight the place!
It’s fking depressing......
I spent most of the first decade of my working life involved in the design of the last 3 Nuclear plants built in the UK and then had to sit and watch successive UK Govts. basically around with their thumbs up their arses about the next ones, and watch all that knowledge and expertise wither away with those that have now died or long retired, and here I am now about the start my last decade or so of my working life, and they still can’t make a decision....
Useless bunch of morons the lot of them.
king depressing......I spent most of the first decade of my working life involved in the design of the last 3 Nuclear plants built in the UK and then had to sit and watch successive UK Govts. basically around with their thumbs up their arses about the next ones, and watch all that knowledge and expertise wither away with those that have now died or long retired, and here I am now about the start my last decade or so of my working life, and they still can’t make a decision....
Useless bunch of morons the lot of them.
I love the way a labour shadow energy minister stated that a decision on proceeding with the EDF backed Hinkley point C should have been made 18 months ago, when up to a little over a month ago, no one knew if we would even be staying in the EU.
Nuclear base load supply is absolutely the best way to go for the UK, but it seems the Hinkley point deal would be the most expensive in the world for the UK consumer. The government have rightly decided to delay the decision to proceed, I am guessing not least because of the implications of the UK leaving the EU, and because of the unprecedented cost implications, but they need to get started on formulating a coherent UK nuclear electricity program, as soon as possible.
Nuclear base load supply is absolutely the best way to go for the UK, but it seems the Hinkley point deal would be the most expensive in the world for the UK consumer. The government have rightly decided to delay the decision to proceed, I am guessing not least because of the implications of the UK leaving the EU, and because of the unprecedented cost implications, but they need to get started on formulating a coherent UK nuclear electricity program, as soon as possible.
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