EDF - Hinkley Point 'C'
Discussion
Bulgaria's got a couple of reactors to flog on, 550 million's an absolute snip
http://www.novinite.com/articles/175518/Iran+Looki...
http://www.novinite.com/articles/175518/Iran+Looki...
Encouraging news from a piece in the Guardian...
"Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
"Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
Cobnapint said:
Encouraging news from a piece in the Guardian...
"Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
Indeed.....its a clusterf"Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
k....but a succession of UK Govts has backed themselves into a corner, with several decades worth of stupidity and we've now not got much choice - its either this or sit on the fence for another decade or more....and watch the lights go dim.....Smiler. said:
Monbiot on R4 now.
And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
IFR is Integral Fast Reactor, the design that Clinton pulled the plug on in the 1990s. You know the discussion has taken a surreal turn when you're agreeing with Monbiot about nuclear power, although I think he's a bit optimistic about PRISM/IFR/Whatever; that loon started going on about a 1/3rd reduction in power usage but neglected to elaborate how this miraculous saving would be obtained, obviously the drugs McKinsey are handing out at meetings are reeeally good maaan. Fast Reactors are a bit of a curate's egg; they could solve some problems, but at the moment they create more problems than they solve. Molten salt technology is likely the key to unlocking greater economy, safety and efficiency in fission reactors, I suspect a working MSR will be a lot quicker and cheaper to perfect than IFR.And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 29th July 10:48
hidetheelephants said:
Smiler. said:
Monbiot on R4 now.
And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
IFR is Integral Fast Reactor, the design that Clinton pulled the plug on in the 1990s. You know the discussion has taken a surreal turn when you're agreeing with Monbiot about nuclear power, although I think he's a bit optimistic about PRISM/IFR/Whatever; that loon started going on about a 1/3rd reduction in power usage but neglected to elaborate how this miraculous saving would be obtained, obviously the drugs McKinsey are handing out at meetings are reeeally good maaan. Fast Reactors are a bit of a curate's egg; they could solve some problems, but at the moment they create more problems than they solve. Molten salt technology is likely the key to unlocking greater economy, safety and efficiency in fission reactors, I suspect a working MSR will be a lot quicker and cheaper to perfect than IFR.And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 29th July 10:48
It is a viable option, as the Chinese should have a commercial PBMR reactor on-line in a year or so.
How about scrapping Hinkley C altogether considering the likely costs and unproven reactors and switch to the proposed Bridgwater Bay Tidal Lagoon.
Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
truck71 said:
hidetheelephants said:
Talksteer said:
Go to Korea and they will show you cost data showing you that nuclear power is cheapest source of electricity.
What he said; they've cracked the cheap nuclear kettle conundrum, just like the french did in the 1970s, but then forgot it again in the 90s.Nuclear is easily the best solution; can we then chop the bastad windmills down that blight the place!
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Another viable option is Pebble Bed Modular Reactors for both Uranium and Thorium fuel. Westinghouse were making good progress on the design, in a joint venture with South Africa and the USA.
It is a viable option, as the Chinese should have a commercial PBMR reactor on-line in a year or so.
There is a lot of synergy between molten salt and pebble systems; the physics of the two work well together on paper, much better than high temperature gas. It just needs someone to get on and build some prototypes of these gen4 designs! Having said that I'm not a huge fan of the pebble system as the coating makes reprocessing even more of a bear when the time comes.It is a viable option, as the Chinese should have a commercial PBMR reactor on-line in a year or so.
Cobnapint said:
Encouraging news from a piece in the Guardian...
"Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
Now theres a place I remember.... I worked on Olkiluoto ages ago! Alstom were making the turbines! (another french company)."Today, not a single EPR reactor operates anywhere in the world. Costs have overrun at the Flamanville nuclear plant in France, which is six years behind schedule. In Finland, where another EPR is planned, the picture is even worse: the Olkiluoto reactor is nearly a decade behind and three times over budget."
barryrs said:
How about scrapping Hinkley C altogether considering the likely costs and unproven reactors and switch to the proposed Bridgwater Bay Tidal Lagoon.
Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
It's not a proven concept at all given there's precisely zero large scale tidal lagoon projects in the world, so that power output is slightly optimistic!Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
IrateNinja said:
barryrs said:
How about scrapping Hinkley C altogether considering the likely costs and unproven reactors and switch to the proposed Bridgwater Bay Tidal Lagoon.
Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
It's not a proven concept at all given there's precisely zero large scale tidal lagoon projects in the world, so that power output is slightly optimistic!Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
aeropilot said:
I remember working on the 'Severn Barrage Tidal Power' feasibility project back in 1980/1
That is something I'd really like to see buit. If we're going to have a financial disaster it may a well be a totally awesome and madcap one. What actually makes it unfeasible- the cost/benefit or environmental concerns to wildlife, etc?glazbagun said:
aeropilot said:
I remember working on the 'Severn Barrage Tidal Power' feasibility project back in 1980/1
That is something I'd really like to see buit. If we're going to have a financial disaster it may a well be a totally awesome and madcap one. What actually makes it unfeasible- the cost/benefit or environmental concerns to wildlife, etc?IrateNinja said:
barryrs said:
How about scrapping Hinkley C altogether considering the likely costs and unproven reactors and switch to the proposed Bridgwater Bay Tidal Lagoon.
Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
It's not a proven concept at all given there's precisely zero large scale tidal lagoon projects in the world, so that power output is slightly optimistic!Costs appear to now be comparable, the expected output of the Lagoon at 3.6GW exceeds that of Hinkley C and its proven turbine technology.
They can produce circa 200MW so a figure of 3.6GW seems realistic taking into consideration the tidal range of up to 15m creating a generating window of 14 hours per day
Edited by barryrs on Friday 29th July 12:51
hidetheelephants said:
Smiler. said:
Monbiot on R4 now.
And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
IFR is Integral Fast Reactor, the design that Clinton pulled the plug on in the 1990s. You know the discussion has taken a surreal turn when you're agreeing with Monbiot about nuclear power, although I think he's a bit optimistic about PRISM/IFR/Whatever; that loon started going on about a 1/3rd reduction in power usage but neglected to elaborate how this miraculous saving would be obtained, obviously the drugs McKinsey are handing out at meetings are reeeally good maaan. Fast Reactors are a bit of a curate's egg; they could solve some problems, but at the moment they create more problems than they solve. Molten salt technology is likely the key to unlocking greater economy, safety and efficiency in fission reactors, I suspect a working MSR will be a lot quicker and cheaper to perfect than IFR.And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 29th July 10:48
Did you catch the name of the woman who was speaking? She was barking. Humph had a stab at calling her out but failed.
Nearly choked at Moonbat.
As for MSR, haven't the Arabs got plants up & running? Who else has gone down that route? I've not really read up on them (only one article a few years back).
Without reading the last 7 pages - why is this thing so expensive?
If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
Parliament has little understanding of the strategic management of power generation, only 26 MPs with science and technology degrees according to: https://duncan.hull.name/2015/05/08/scientist-mps/
The UK doesn't need cutting edge fission stations, we tried that with AGR; the end result was and remains world-leading but the resource required for R&D and the timescales were substantial.
The UK doesn't need cutting edge fission stations, we tried that with AGR; the end result was and remains world-leading but the resource required for R&D and the timescales were substantial.
This just in: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/29/the...
Even if there's a grain of truth in it, the Chinese must be hopping mad right now. Whilst a good idea to hold the Chinese to account over human rights, I think a small country like the UK doesn't stand a chance in hell of influencing the situation. Or perhaps there are other reasons....
Even if there's a grain of truth in it, the Chinese must be hopping mad right now. Whilst a good idea to hold the Chinese to account over human rights, I think a small country like the UK doesn't stand a chance in hell of influencing the situation. Or perhaps there are other reasons....
barryrs said:
Sorry I was merely suggesting the technologies eg water driven turbines is a proven not the concept; the ones proposed currently being Kaplan bulb turbines.
They can produce circa 200MW so a figure of 3.6GW seems realistic taking into consideration the tidal range of up to 15m creating a generating window of 14 hours per day
That's a flawed prediction as that range is the very maximum spring tidal range observed in the Bristol channel. At neap tide the range is far smaller. They can produce circa 200MW so a figure of 3.6GW seems realistic taking into consideration the tidal range of up to 15m creating a generating window of 14 hours per day
Edited by barryrs on Friday 29th July 12:51
Which highlights a problem, although the power output is predictable you'll achieve max power output <5% of the time.
A lagoon scheme would incur huge financial and environmental costs yet still have significant drawbacks.
I'd also suggest current turbine design is optimised for high flow rate systems utilised as part of a hydroelectric installation, however clearly the velocity of the tide is much smaller. This isn't my area so I very much stand to be corrected!
Edited by IrateNinja on Friday 29th July 13:28
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