EDF - Hinkley Point 'C'
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Without reading the last 7 pages - why is this thing so expensive?
If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
Because it's enormously complex design with incredibly high manufacturing expectations. The build in France is running into problems as the steelmakers for the reactor pressure vessel are struggling to manufacture it to spec.If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
The design also features an intricate 'core catcher' which is designed to safely carry melted core material in the event of a severe accident to a concrete container. Another design being considered by the industry uses a far simpler ceramic hemisphere located directly below the reactor.
There are other designs (both American I think from memory) being considered by the industry regulator but the EDF one is the only one which has been approved so far.
Blue Oval84 said:
And what do we do for the times of day when the lagoon isn't generating? Build yet more plant that sits idle for half the time?
The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
Bingo.The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
Blue Oval84 said:
And what do we do for the times of day when the lagoon isn't generating? Build yet more plant that sits idle for half the time?
The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
I thought lagoons etc generated power most of the time the tide is going in or out. and use the lagoon storage to cover the changeover points?The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
May must know something. Don't forget her previous job, in contact with MI5 on a regular basis, she must have been fed stuff from MI6 too.
China are known to be about as two faced as you can get internationally. Cyber attacks, claiming international waters as their own, locking up enemies of the state' etc.etc.
Something's up.
China are known to be about as two faced as you can get internationally. Cyber attacks, claiming international waters as their own, locking up enemies of the state' etc.etc.
Something's up.
Edited by Cobnapint on Friday 29th July 14:15
IrateNinja said:
saaby93 said:
Without reading the last 7 pages - why is this thing so expensive?
If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
Because it's enormously complex design with incredibly high manufacturing expectations. The build in France is running into problems as the steelmakers for the reactor pressure vessel are struggling to manufacture it to spec.If its a prototype of a new plant why is it going in at Hinkley where prevailing winds take out Bristol and Birmingham?
And if it is a prototype - why are the two follow on plants at Sizewell and somewhere different designs?
Is this only for England and a separate bidding process for the two plants in north west Wales?
The design also features an intricate 'core catcher' which is designed to safely carry melted core material in the event of a severe accident to a concrete container. Another design being considered by the industry uses a far simpler ceramic hemisphere located directly below the reactor.
There are other designs (both American I think from memory) being considered by the industry regulator but the EDF one is the only one which has been approved so far.
Blue Oval84 said:
And what do we do for the times of day when the lagoon isn't generating? Build yet more plant that sits idle for half the time?
The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
Bingo.The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
Horizon Nuclear Power, owned by Hitachi (Japanese) are hoping to build these at Wylfa.
I worked on the initial constructability studies (in relation to the UK regulations, safety culture etc) for Horizon a couple of years ago. They're a proven design which is already in operation in Japan. From what I remember they even managed to complete the construction on time and under budget!
They're an older design, but they're a good chunk cheaper.
Read the Telegraph article [it's tucked away below the adverts]:-
"The last-minute intervention by Downing Street to delay the sign-off is also understood to reflect concerns over the costs of the project.
Under a deal provisionally agreed in 2013, UK consumers would pay subsidies to give EDF a guaranteed price for the electricity Hinkley produced for 35 years.
A report earlier this month from the National Audit Office highlighted how the likely cost of subsidies had more than quadrupled since the original agreement, as power price forecasts fell."
"The last-minute intervention by Downing Street to delay the sign-off is also understood to reflect concerns over the costs of the project.
Under a deal provisionally agreed in 2013, UK consumers would pay subsidies to give EDF a guaranteed price for the electricity Hinkley produced for 35 years.
A report earlier this month from the National Audit Office highlighted how the likely cost of subsidies had more than quadrupled since the original agreement, as power price forecasts fell."
Effjay said:
The ABWR design is well on it's way to approval with the ONR. It's a General Electric/Hitatchi product.
Horizon Nuclear Power, owned by Hitachi (Japanese) are hoping to build these at Wylfa.
I worked on the initial constructability studies (in relation to the UK regulations, safety culture etc) for Horizon a couple of years ago. They're a proven design which is already in operation in Japan. From what I remember they even managed to complete the construction on time and under budget!
They're an older design, but they're a good chunk cheaper.
That's interesting, the ABWR design is the one I know very little about. Horizon Nuclear Power, owned by Hitachi (Japanese) are hoping to build these at Wylfa.
I worked on the initial constructability studies (in relation to the UK regulations, safety culture etc) for Horizon a couple of years ago. They're a proven design which is already in operation in Japan. From what I remember they even managed to complete the construction on time and under budget!
They're an older design, but they're a good chunk cheaper.
The other alternative (AP1000) has also already been built in states and is operating as well. Meanwhile all the EPR projects...
fido]Read the Telegraph article [it's tucked away below the adverts said:
:-
"The last-minute intervention by Downing Street to delay the sign-off is also understood to reflect concerns over the costs of the project.
Under a deal provisionally agreed in 2013, UK consumers would pay subsidies to give EDF a guaranteed price for the electricity Hinkley produced for 35 years.
A report earlier this month from the National Audit Office highlighted how the likely cost of subsidies had more than quadrupled since the original agreement, as power price forecasts fell."
That makes no difference."The last-minute intervention by Downing Street to delay the sign-off is also understood to reflect concerns over the costs of the project.
Under a deal provisionally agreed in 2013, UK consumers would pay subsidies to give EDF a guaranteed price for the electricity Hinkley produced for 35 years.
A report earlier this month from the National Audit Office highlighted how the likely cost of subsidies had more than quadrupled since the original agreement, as power price forecasts fell."
The way that the contract works is that a strike price was agreed, and if the market price is below, the consumer tops up the generator. If the market price is above, the generator reimburses the consumer.
The effect is to fix the price for the consumer, so whilst the market has gone down, and subsidies have gone up, the net effect is precisely 0.
Smiler. said:
hidetheelephants said:
Smiler. said:
Monbiot on R4 now.
And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
IFR is Integral Fast Reactor, the design that Clinton pulled the plug on in the 1990s. You know the discussion has taken a surreal turn when you're agreeing with Monbiot about nuclear power, although I think he's a bit optimistic about PRISM/IFR/Whatever; that loon started going on about a 1/3rd reduction in power usage but neglected to elaborate how this miraculous saving would be obtained, obviously the drugs McKinsey are handing out at meetings are reeeally good maaan. Fast Reactors are a bit of a curate's egg; they could solve some problems, but at the moment they create more problems than they solve. Molten salt technology is likely the key to unlocking greater economy, safety and efficiency in fission reactors, I suspect a working MSR will be a lot quicker and cheaper to perfect than IFR.And some other woman.
"Renewable & energy efficiency".
A "smart, flexible system".
Using 1/3 less energy.
HOW? FFS.
Monboit citing Internal Fast Reactors? Did I hear that right?
Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 29th July 10:48
Did you catch the name of the woman who was speaking? She was barking. Humph had a stab at calling her out but failed.
Nearly choked at Moonbat.
As for MSR, haven't the Arabs got plants up & running? Who else has gone down that route? I've not really read up on them (only one article a few years back).
She was crackers.
It's noticeable how all these people who extol the virtues of forests of windmills or acres of solar panels all seem to live in cosy intellectual metropolitan enclaves (looking at you Islington, Highgate et al), rather than where the inefficent monstrosities actually get built (some of our more beautiful coastline and rich arable land).
Blue Oval84 said:
And what do we do for the times of day when the lagoon isn't generating? Build yet more plant that sits idle for half the time?
The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
But nuclear plants need downtime also. When they need a refresh it's not just a couple of hours job with some duct tape and No More Nails The whole point is we need the base load surely? And that's what nuclear is very good at providing.
Considering that, when this plant, which will provide 7% of our electricity needs goes off line, how do we compensate for it?We still have not figured out the total cost of decommissioning plants we did 50 years back, so it makes me chuckle now we are arguing costs before we take into account the decommissioning costs, indeed before it even turns over one iota of electricity. Cost before you start before costs after you finish...
Meanwhile over in Norway
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36402942
"The electricity being pumped into her car is free.
Norway is fortunate enough to have close to 100% renewable and cheap hydro power production.
According to the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, even if all three million cars on the country's roads were electric, they would suck up just 5-6% of the annual hydro power electricity production."
"It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and the world's third largest exporter of natural gas. In other words, Norway is rich enough to subsidise its electric car lifestyle."
oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 29th July 15:37
Gandahar said:
"It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and the world's third largest exporter of natural gas. In other words, Norway is rich enough to subsidise its electric car lifestyle."
oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
Norway is also rather significantly helped in its Hydro power generation by the very nature of it's geography and remoteness of it as well oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
aeropilot said:
Gandahar said:
"It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and the world's third largest exporter of natural gas. In other words, Norway is rich enough to subsidise its electric car lifestyle."
oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
Norway is also rather significantly helped in its Hydro power generation by the very nature of it's geography and remoteness of it as well oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
aeropilot said:
It’s f
king depressing......
I spent most of the first decade of my working life involved in the design of the last 3 Nuclear plants built in the UK and then had to sit and watch successive UK Govts. basically around with their thumbs up their arses about the next ones, and watch all that knowledge and expertise wither away with those that have now died or long retired, and here I am now about the start my last decade or so of my working life, and they still can’t make a decision....
Useless bunch of morons the lot of them.
My uncle used to work for the (IIRC) atomic energy authority. He says basically the same thing. We should man up and pay the price to develop and build these things ourselves. In the long run outsourcing and de-skilling (in general) will lead to ruin. I for one do not have a problem with higher taxpayer costs if it means maintaining our ability to do things like this. king depressing......I spent most of the first decade of my working life involved in the design of the last 3 Nuclear plants built in the UK and then had to sit and watch successive UK Govts. basically around with their thumbs up their arses about the next ones, and watch all that knowledge and expertise wither away with those that have now died or long retired, and here I am now about the start my last decade or so of my working life, and they still can’t make a decision....
Useless bunch of morons the lot of them.
Gandahar said:
aeropilot said:
Gandahar said:
"It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and the world's third largest exporter of natural gas. In other words, Norway is rich enough to subsidise its electric car lifestyle."
oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
Norway is also rather significantly helped in its Hydro power generation by the very nature of it's geography and remoteness of it as well oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
aeropilot said:
Gandahar said:
"It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and the world's third largest exporter of natural gas. In other words, Norway is rich enough to subsidise its electric car lifestyle."
oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
Norway is also rather significantly helped in its Hydro power generation by the very nature of it's geography and remoteness of it as well oil, gas and renewables against our overpriced carbon fecking free French Chinese Nuclear plant.
WE HAVE GONE WRONG.
johnxjsc1985 said:
pim said:
Why always the comparison with Norway?
There is enough coal in the ground for the next god knows how many years.
Maybe open the mines again there is hope yet for a Island nation.
wasn't there plans at one point for a clean burn Coal fired Power Station?. There is enough coal in the ground for the next god knows how many years.
Maybe open the mines again there is hope yet for a Island nation.
It appears to me that this project is an open cheque book operation and we will have to write the cheques and smile whilst we do it. Do we want to be doing business with a Country that doesn't appreciate us i.e France.
Could be something of a political sweetner to give it the go ahead.
Could be something of a political sweetner to give it the go ahead.
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