Government defeated in the Lords re refugee children.

Government defeated in the Lords re refugee children.

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Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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Derek Smith said:
I was brought up to do one's bit, and that included treating foreigners in a way I'd like to be treated in their country.
If you can show me a muslim country that would treat me with as much compassion as we treat refugees from that country... pandering to their needs and what they are used to back home, when they complain, we treat them better than our own homeless and people in relative poverty, putting them to the top of waiting lists ahead of our own people...

If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.

As for the Jews coming across during the war... that was a different generation that knew respect, humility and other traits that were the norm, that has been lost since then, I don't see any of these traits in the current generations and certainly not even in our own as a whole, its all about demanding it and they expect it as its their right!!

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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That's^ how I see it too.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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Du1point8 said:
If you can show me a muslim country that would treat me with as much compassion as we treat refugees from that country... pandering to their needs and what they are used to back home, when they complain, we treat them better than our own homeless and people in relative poverty, putting them to the top of waiting lists ahead of our own people...

If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.

As for the Jews coming across during the war... that was a different generation that knew respect, humility and other traits that were the norm, that has been lost since then, I don't see any of these traits in the current generations and certainly not even in our own as a whole, its all about demanding it and they expect it as its their right!!
Well that's one view of how the Jews were treated in this country.

There were racists and fascists at the time who said that they should return to 'their own country' and blamed much of the problems of Europe on them. These groups seemed to think the Jews were identical as a group, running the country from their homes in the Eat End. Their intent, people were told, was to bring down Britain and destroy the way of life.

There was a certain amount of it after the war as well. My father, in one of his practical learning phases, took me to a meeting where the two Mosleys, Ozzy and Max, tried to stir things up in Brick Lane. There were thugs there beating people up at random and that was our cue to leave. But the Union Movement, the post war reincarnation of the British Union of Fascists, came to nought.

Racism didn't go away as the blacks came to this country, again intent to destroy the British way of life and to flood the country with whatever it was they were going to flood it with. They, obviously, were just like the Jews, we were told, in that they were all the same. Every one was a smack head. Or rapist. Or lazy.

So now we have muslims. I'm not quite certain that that are all the same, that they are all dedicated to destroying the UK/EU/western civilisation. Certainly not Abdus who lives across the road from me. He's just like people, and certainly a more pleasant neighbour to the family at the end of the road.


Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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Derek Smith said:
stuff
You still didn't answer my question as to what a pogram is.

I'll presume you don't know either.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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Britain let Jews from Nazi Germany in because there was a determined effort by the German government to exterminate them. We didn't let in every young German man shouting Heil Hitler because we thought Germany was a nasty place to be with the vain hope that they would probably turn out ok. Quite the opposite in fact.

Mandalore

4,165 posts

112 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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Derek,
You might have missed it, but the 1930's were 80 years ago and the world has changed a lot, so you cannot compare the two time zones and the Jewish situation is European Germany at the time was nothing like the middle east.






Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
Mandalore said:
Derek,

You might have missed it, but the 1930's were 80 years ago and the world has changed a lot, so you cannot compare the two time zones and the Jewish situation is European Germany at the time was nothing like the middle east.
Have times changed that much that we no longer care for distressed children?

AJS- said:
Britain let Jews from Nazi Germany in because there was a determined effort by the German government to exterminate them. We didn't let in every young German man shouting Heil Hitler because we thought Germany was a nasty place to be with the vain hope that they would probably turn out ok. Quite the opposite in fact.
I'm not sure that is quite correct. Many of those in the area of London I policed came to the UK before Kristallnacht so before the more obvious facets of German attack on Jews and other. Many Jews did not believe that those they lived with and regarded as friends would turn on them.


rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
quotequote all
Du1point8 said:
Derek Smith said:
I was brought up to do one's bit, and that included treating foreigners in a way I'd like to be treated in their country.
If you can show me a muslim country that would treat me with as much compassion as we treat refugees from that country... pandering to their needs and what they are used to back home, when they complain, we treat them better than our own homeless and people in relative poverty, putting them to the top of waiting lists ahead of our own people...

If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.

As for the Jews coming across during the war... that was a different generation that knew respect, humility and other traits that were the norm, that has been lost since then, I don't see any of these traits in the current generations and certainly not even in our own as a whole, its all about demanding it and they expect it as its their right!!
This ^^^^

I'd have no problem helping refugee children but if they are reunited with family then that should not be our burden to carry. We are not the most local safe nation to them.

We are certainly not geared up for a huge increase in population, we are barely coping as it is.

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 29th March 12:09

triggerh4ppy

397 posts

125 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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eatcustard said:
I agree with you here, but they dont return the favour, they want sharia law and Halal meat etc etc, then have strop when they dont get there way.

They can all go live in a Muslim country that will ponder to there needs.

UK is full
Can you show me a syrian who wants sharia law over here? Halal meat is already available here everywhere so thats not an issue..

ABZ RS6

749 posts

102 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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Cameron really is a spineless streak of piss.

JagLover

42,262 posts

234 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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Judging from the number of U-Turns they are either spineless or don't properly think through their proposals.

In this case just spineless as it was always a more wise decision to voluntarily take migrants from refugee camps rather than encourage illegal migration. Yes unpopular on social media and with the BBC/Guardian set but a Tory government should never aim to keep them happy all the time anyway!

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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JagLover said:
Judging from the number of U-Turns they are either spineless or don't properly think through their proposals.

In this case just spineless as it was always a more wise decision to voluntarily take migrants from refugee camps rather than encourage illegal migration. Yes unpopular on social media and with the BBC/Guardian set but a Tory government should never aim to keep them happy all the time anyway!
He did the right thing, then got bullied. Just as well we are not at war. frown

His job is to look well ahead, not just tomorrow's papers or tonight's twit.

PRTVR

7,072 posts

220 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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Can somebody explain to me why they cannot be looked after in Europe ? Why is not France looking after the ones in Calais, in the north east there was a report on the costs to look after children in a local home, £2.8 million a year to look after between 3 to six children, these things are really easy to agree to but harder to pay for.

Jonesy23

4,650 posts

135 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Can somebody explain to me why they cannot be looked after in Europe ? Why is not France looking after the ones in Calais, in the north east there was a report on the costs to look after children in a local home, £2.8 million a year to look after between 3 to six children, these things are really easy to agree to but harder to pay for.
I'm not sure they will bother to mention why anyone would need 'rescuing' from another EU state.

Or ask the awkward question of why they're unaccompanied.

Or mention any statistics of how many of the 'children' turn out to be adults.

Or for that matter mention that the people they claim they're at risk from are the same people they also want to give asylum to.

Crush

15,077 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Can somebody explain to me why they cannot be looked after in Europe ? Why is not France looking after the ones in Calais, in the north east there was a report on the costs to look after children in a local home, £2.8 million a year to look after between 3 to six children, these things are really easy to agree to but harder to pay for.
Why so expensive?

PRTVR

7,072 posts

220 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Crush said:
PRTVR said:
Can somebody explain to me why they cannot be looked after in Europe ? Why is not France looking after the ones in Calais, in the north east there was a report on the costs to look after children in a local home, £2.8 million a year to look after between 3 to six children, these things are really easy to agree to but harder to pay for.
Why so expensive?
That's a question everybody asked, according to the council it was a good deal and saving £600,000 a year over the cost that they were paying to have them looked after out of the area.

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/po...
Could not find the original article but Google gave the above link.

del mar

2,838 posts

198 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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We are told that the foster / adoption system is at breaking point.

i am sure social services would welcome another few thousand into the system.

These children will be far harder to place / rehome, they will bring language problems and all manner of behavioural issues due to what they have been through.

Yes 80 years ago we may have been prepared to help those in need, I think some of the country has grown tired of immigration maybe for the wrong reasons, the fact that the people and government haven't jumped at the first chance to take thousands is these people says a lot.


irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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if they are genuinely children (and not the type that have turned up in Sweden!) and orphaned then yes we should consider taking them in. However IMO that does mean running medical tests on those who do seem 'somewhat' older than might be expected. I would also say that a large proportion of them need to be relocated to Wales and Scotland rather than the SE

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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PRTVR said:
Can somebody explain to me why they cannot be looked after in Europe ? Why is not France looking after the ones in Calais, .
To compare this with the "kinder" situation seems bizarre or am I missing something.