Government defeated in the Lords re refugee children.
Discussion
This is thousands of child refugees currently in Europe right? Whilst there's no doubt we have a moral obligation to help children in need; they are already in Europe. They are already safe, or should be. Were not exactly talking about Nazi Germany or Vichy France are we? Finding them homes now is simply a matter of logistics and who pays. If there is a moral obligation at all it is simply to spread that cost with our allies.
I love the irony that the usual crowd that spend half the time telling us how much better France and Germany are than us; more meritocratic, better education, healthcare and social systems are now wanting to disadvantage these poor people further by moving them to the UK! Doh.
I love the irony that the usual crowd that spend half the time telling us how much better France and Germany are than us; more meritocratic, better education, healthcare and social systems are now wanting to disadvantage these poor people further by moving them to the UK! Doh.
del mar said:
We are told that the foster / adoption system is at breaking point.
i am sure social services would welcome another few thousand into the system.
Indeed. We currently have 4000 of our own children awaiting adoption/fostering. Will this 3000 per year extra take priority and bump the others down the list or will they just sit in "care" indefinitely?i am sure social services would welcome another few thousand into the system.
Surely you have to sort out your own problems rather than add more fuel to the fire?
Most of these "children" being imported are between 16 and 18. So near enough adults. Then there will be the right to family life and that 3000 "children" could bring another 10000 relatives. When will it end? When we have homeless people on every street in every town? Will that then be enough?
I caught this on the news the other day, it does seem strange why we are taking Children from France (in the Jungle) with no family in the UK.
They kept banging on about how dangerous the Jungle was for unaccompanied children, surely they can seek asylum in France?
The aid worker interviews never mentioned why the children can't be home in France and the useless reporter never bothered to put the question to her.
Do the French not have mechanisms in place to home child refugees. Or have these children been told to get to the UK at all costs?
They kept banging on about how dangerous the Jungle was for unaccompanied children, surely they can seek asylum in France?
The aid worker interviews never mentioned why the children can't be home in France and the useless reporter never bothered to put the question to her.
Do the French not have mechanisms in place to home child refugees. Or have these children been told to get to the UK at all costs?
On the BBC news this morning they had an interview with a child migrant, his intentions were to get to Holland then where he had uncle's then the rest of his family can come across, it appears that this is the way to get round the immigration laws, it would appear as if our government have fallen for it, with the call of will you think of the poor children.
Du1point8 said:
If you can show me a muslim country that would treat me with as much compassion as we treat refugees from that country... pandering to their needs and what they are used to back home, when they complain, we treat them better than our own homeless and people in relative poverty, putting them to the top of waiting lists ahead of our own people...
If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.
As for the Jews coming across during the war... that was a different generation that knew respect, humility and other traits that were the norm, that has been lost since then, I don't see any of these traits in the current generations and certainly not even in our own as a whole, its all about demanding it and they expect it as its their right!!
Fully agree.If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.
As for the Jews coming across during the war... that was a different generation that knew respect, humility and other traits that were the norm, that has been lost since then, I don't see any of these traits in the current generations and certainly not even in our own as a whole, its all about demanding it and they expect it as its their right!!
What also stands out is the inaction of the Arab Gulf countries to take in ANY Syrian, Iraqi or other middle east refugees. They see them as not being "the same" (despite commonality of religion for the majority of these so-called refugees). The Gulf countries' attitude is to send them to Europe (or Israel or Jordan or Turkey or Egypt or Lebanon) so as not to dilute the standard of living.
Du1point8 said:
If I went across there and asked for the same treatment... or should I say have a hissy fit and demanded it and started abusing the locals or acting up, you can be damn certain I would end up being beaten, or even worse for defying their laws, etc.
Exactly. The treatment of any "dissidents" or troublemakers in these countries is disgusting. how did these children get there? I assume they didn't find their way all on their own
i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to london
someone just have helped them get this far and hence in effect are in loco parentis
hence they are not alone, they may have been abandoned but they are in a safe country, that country should look after them
if we are going to accept them, the rule should be the family that sent them should never be allowed to come, otherwise it encourages throwing your children into the mess in a hope of winning a life in the west
i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to london
someone just have helped them get this far and hence in effect are in loco parentis
hence they are not alone, they may have been abandoned but they are in a safe country, that country should look after them
if we are going to accept them, the rule should be the family that sent them should never be allowed to come, otherwise it encourages throwing your children into the mess in a hope of winning a life in the west
piquet said:
how did these children get there? I assume they didn't find their way all on their own
i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to london
someone just have helped them get this far and hence in effect are in loco parentis
hence they are not alone, they may have been abandoned but they are in a safe country, that country should look after them
if we are going to accept them, the rule should be the family that sent them should never be allowed to come, otherwise it encourages throwing your children into the mess in a hope of winning a life in the west
"Grapnel children". There's a "More or Less" episode that spelled out why very few Afghan migrants to Sweden claim to be 17-20.i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to london
someone just have helped them get this far and hence in effect are in loco parentis
hence they are not alone, they may have been abandoned but they are in a safe country, that country should look after them
if we are going to accept them, the rule should be the family that sent them should never be allowed to come, otherwise it encourages throwing your children into the mess in a hope of winning a life in the west
del mar said:
We are told that the foster / adoption system is at breaking point.
i am sure social services would welcome another few thousand into the system.
These children will be far harder to place / rehome, they will bring language problems and all manner of behavioural issues due to what they have been through.
Yes 80 years ago we may have been prepared to help those in need, I think some of the country has grown tired of immigration maybe for the wrong reasons, the fact that the people and government haven't jumped at the first chance to take thousands is these people says a lot.
80 years ago, UK population was 38 million so we had room to swing a cati am sure social services would welcome another few thousand into the system.
These children will be far harder to place / rehome, they will bring language problems and all manner of behavioural issues due to what they have been through.
Yes 80 years ago we may have been prepared to help those in need, I think some of the country has grown tired of immigration maybe for the wrong reasons, the fact that the people and government haven't jumped at the first chance to take thousands is these people says a lot.
piquet said:
how did these children get there? I assume they didn't find their way all on their own
i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to London
I think the statistic is that only around 4% or 7% are under the age of 14. Very few very young children and I doubt the youngest will be prioritised.i doubt parents are going to 8 year olds, now i want you to walk to London
I find it disturbing to read about vulnerable, unaccompanied children living in fear in one of our closest European cousins.
You could almost make an argument for us leaving such an uncivilized, dangerous union for fear of it's culture of repression spreading to our shores.
Alternately you could take the view these 'children' are living in a safe country, having passed through many more safe lands and are merely wanting to move to the UK because it's advantageous to them economically.
You could almost make an argument for us leaving such an uncivilized, dangerous union for fear of it's culture of repression spreading to our shores.
Alternately you could take the view these 'children' are living in a safe country, having passed through many more safe lands and are merely wanting to move to the UK because it's advantageous to them economically.
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