Another European route thread - please critique!

[Cabrony]

The below is my Alps trip I am planning for the end of July. I won't have the chance to do another one for some years (money, kids, house etc) let alone in anything close to my MK3 MR2 and it’s a big one to tick off my bucket list; consequently, I want to make the most of it!

I've planned a route I am happy with that takes in the best passes but want to know if there's any alternative routes to take or roads I could easily include? The route equates to 46 hours of driving/2200 miles. I’m conscious of not adding too many more miles for cost/time and already plan to camp to reduce cost.

I hope that by going late July the passes will be surrounded by greenery or can I still expect roads carved out of snow?

Anyway on to the route:



https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zCzGjhLJqV1...

In order the route is:
• Calais to Baden Baden (currently via France but don’t know whether to go via Belgium and Germany?)
• B500 – Germany
• Hahntennjoch – Austria
• Timmelsjoch – Austria
• San Leonardo Pass (SS44) - Italy
• Passo Del Tonale (SS42) - Italy
• Albula Pass – Switzerland (potentially skip and drive through Italy further before meeting up with the San Bernadino pass?)
• San Bernadino Pass – Switzerland
• Gothard Pass – Switzerland
• Furka Pass – Switzerland
• Grimsel Pass – Switzerland
• Susten Pass – Switzerland
• Klausen Pass – Switzerland
• Autobahn to Nurburgring (if I’m feeling brave - if not straight to Calais via Germany and Belgium)

Please let me know your thoughts or suggest any edits etc.

Thanks!

[Nyarlathotep]

It looks like a good route and certainly enough passes to keep you happy for a while! I've actually been awaiting others to comment on this as I have a similar trip planned (on my motorbike), also at the end of July. It looks like the passes should all be open, although weather can be unpredictable and snow is always a possibility that high up. Rain and fog are also possible of course, but fingers firmly crossed for good weather!

The weather is a particularly important consideration as here your trip concentrates pretty much entirely on the passes. The B500, whilst pretty, is perhaps a little over-rated in that the speed limit is quite low and well policed whilst the driving is more open sweepers rather than tight turns. Don't get me wrong, it's good and we are going that way too, but what your journey is passing by, but missing, is the Ardennes in Belgium and the Voseges in France. If time allows, try to fit these in. This is particularly true if the weather on the Swiss passess turns out to be dodgy!

[Cabrony]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I hadn't really taken the weather into consideration or how quickly it could change at those heights, like you say the route is very pass heavy.

I did a portion of the B500 last year, not realising it was effectively split in two. It was a little busy and that was on a weekday, would be hitting it on a Saturday this time round too. Think I'll swap it out for Voseges in France - hadn't even considered it but the roads look impressive.

To be honest I'm very tempted to stay in France, do the Route des Grande Alps, Route Napoleon, Col de Turini, D21 etc etc instead.

Do you have any experience of the alpine passes vs the french roads?
Don't want to go all that way and sit in traffic, get stuck behind a motorhome or have to put the roof up due to snow! Also not too bothered about seeing things along the way as it's more about the roads.

[Nyarlathotep]

I don't have much experience in this personally, but from reading and speaking with those who do it seems the Swiss passes are busier than some of those in France, particularly on weekends. It's all relative however and mid week should be quite acceptable.
For our trip, I would probably have chosen the French alpine roads if we had a few more days, but Switzerland is quite a lot closer with the ability to access many "must do" roads from one central point.

[Stuart J]

End of July there will be a lot of tourists so don't cut times to tight, in Switzerland they are pretty tough on speeding, I've found most passes OK but sneaky radar traps in Villages aren't uncommon so take it easy in built up areas. The last one that had me I genuinely have no idea where it was hidden, just flagged down at the edge of the village, luckily only just over so sub 100 Euro fleecing of the wallet, Since ince they revalued the Swiss frank a couple of years ago its again a tadge expensive to eat there. Im assuming you will have hotels prebooked so will have those costs covered.

If you do decide to stay more in France 2 great drives

Col De Bonnet https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=col+de+bonnette&...

Mt Ventoux in Provence https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=col+de+bonnette&...

Mt Ventoux is a mecca for Cyclists so go up early in the Morning, I usually blat up at first light & you can then get to the top in time for the sunrise, usually take a flask of coffee to enjoy. Bedoin is at the foot of the Mountain & a great place to stay, theres also a road down the otherside so 2 roads to play on, we usually drop down the other side for breakfast. Drive it later in the day & you meet quite a few cyclists, those going up aren't an issue but those coming down often straight line corners which can be a little un nerving

Edited by Stuart J on Wednesday 25th May 07:27

[Cabrony]

Thanks for all the replies. You've really got me thinking now. Don't know whether to stick to France or do my planned route. I do love France as a country!
Some of the roads do look epic and it would probably be easier to camp.

[mr pg]

You have to do the Swiss passes!

[Cabrony]

mr pg said:

You have to do the Swiss passes!

As simple as that?
What about Route Napoleon, Route de Grande Alpes, D2, Col de Turini etc?

[Cabrony]

Or do the main central Swiss passes - Furka, Susten etc then across to Lake Geneva and down the route design grand alps to do some French passes?

[mr pg]

Cabrony said:

mr pg said:

You have to do the Swiss passes!

As simple as that?
What about Route Napoleon, Route de Grande Alpes, D2, Col de Turini etc?

What I meant was don't just stick to France.

[dcb]

mr pg said:

What I meant was don't just stick to France.

Good idea. If you go out via France, suggest come back via Germany
& Belgium. Or vice versa.

Don't forget to stock up on the vitals of life (petrol, beer etc) in Luxembourg.

[heebeegeetee]

mr pg said:

Cabrony said:

mr pg said:

You have to do the Swiss passes!

As simple as that?
What about Route Napoleon, Route de Grande Alpes, D2, Col de Turini etc?

What I meant was don't just stick to France.

I think there's a lot to be said for sticking to France, you can stitch days together of superb driving on utterly deserted roads, as opposed to either mixing with tourists and cyclists on the grand passes or spend time hanging around to do the passes when it's quiet.

If you want tick boxes off then 'do the passes' but alternatively you can have whole days of fantastic driving on deserted roads in France - but on roads most people won't have heard of.

[krallicious]

Skip Gottard and do the Nufenenpass and then onto the Grimsel.

Watch out for speed camers around Basel.

Don't follow the B500 as it is busy and there are quite a few speed traps.

[Cabrony]

krallicious said:

Skip Gottard and do the Nufenenpass and then onto the Grimsel.

Watch out for speed camers around Basel.

Don't follow the B500 as it is busy and there are quite a few speed traps.

Thank you, Nufenenpass has been added to the list.
B500 is being swapped out for roads in the Vosges mountains in France.