Nato concerned Isil is plotting nuclear attack on UK

[llewop]

dudleybloke said:

Seems the Belgians are handing out iodine tablets to people living anywhere near a nuclear plant.

Something we've done for years - toss up is always between pre-issue, which risks individuals lose them, forget where they have stashed them, or take them when they don't need to, or; have a plan to distribute them in the event of a release or potential release.

[jhfozzy]

llewop said:

dudleybloke said:

Seems the Belgians are handing out iodine tablets to people living anywhere near a nuclear plant.

Something we've done for years - toss up is always between pre-issue, which risks individuals lose them, forget where they have stashed them, or take them when they don't need to, or; have a plan to distribute them in the event of a release or potential release.

Still got mine from when I lived near Sizewell B.

[Timmy40]

dudleybloke said:

Seems the Belgians are handing out iodine tablets to people living anywhere near a nuclear plant.

Seems unecessary given the average Belgians propensity for building bunkers under their house?

[TheJimi]

Interesting that thread, this.

I have to ask though Zod, what evidence do you have that yellow is a fantasist?

I'll be honest, for a guy that does what you do, at the level you do it, you really do yourself no favors at all sometimes.

[Zod]

TheJimi said:

Interesting that thread, this.

I have to ask though Zod, what evidence do you have that yellow is a fantasist?

I'll be honest, for a guy that does what you do, at the level you do it, you really do yourself no favors at all sometimes.

Come on; all the talk about secret stuff that the public doesn't know about?

ETA I could be wrong, but these people turn up too often.

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 3rd May 21:51

[TheJimi]

Zod said:

TheJimi said:

Interesting that thread, this.

I have to ask though Zod, what evidence do you have that yellow is a fantasist?

I'll be honest, for a guy that does what you do, at the level you do it, you really do yourself no favors at all sometimes.

Come on; all the talk about secret stuff that the public doesn't know about?

Quote that bit for me, please.

All I see him suggesting is that if the public had the intel that the EOD depts have, then people may not be so quick to call tinfoil hat.

Which seems both reasonable and logical to me.

[Sylvaforever]

SHAPE issued a detailed warning of credible threat[s], to mass gatherings at "international" events, to member defence ministeries, today.

This has been cascaded downwards due to the threat timescale........

[Rogue86]

Zod said:

Come on; all the talk about secret stuff that the public doesn't know about?

ETA I could be wrong, but these people turn up too often.

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 3rd May 21:51

How is it secret? He even linked you to open-source material!

Of course the MOD have contingencies in place and as far as I see, the only 'secret' hes refusing to reveal is the RE stores location. Granted, his first post was hugely (and unnecessarily) dramatic, but there are lots of things that the Armed Forces train for in case they happen, though that doesnt necessarily make them likely to happen.

[anonymous-user]

There was some intel floating around a few years back that a group in Birmingham (or maybe Bradford) were plotting to blow up the internet.

Not sure how true it is but it sounds plausible.

[Some Gump]

Welshbeef said:

I posted a similar thread a short while ago - the general PH posting on it was its all tosh with many dubious cartoon or mocking pics posted.

Didn't you propose nuclear Armageddon delivered by thousands upon thousands of children's toys?

You were mocked because the whole concept was spastic.

[Rogue86]

Some Gump said:

You were mocked because the whole concept was spastic.

[yellowjack]

Sylvaforever said:

SHAPE issued a detailed warning of credible threat(s), to mass gatherings at "international" events, to member defence ministeries, today.

This has been cascaded downwards due to the threat timescale........

Breaking my self imposed silence on this thread, I know, but...

It's the National Yom HaShoah Commemoration (Jewish Remembrance Day for Victims of the Holocaust) on Sunday. A large gathering at a public venue, an international commemoration, and being a predominantly Jewish event, it'd be a target any self respecting Islamic Fundamentalist would like to have a crack at, I think. Yom HaShoah itself was 4th/5th May and commemorated in smaller local ceremonies, but much like Remembrance Sunday, the big public commemoration takes place on the closest weekend.

Extra security on for this one, I hope. Maybe there'll be a MACP task for RE EOD search teams ahead of it.

Oh. And further to earlier snidey comments...

... More "Public Domain" stuff: http://www.army.mod.uk/royalengineers/units/28655....

I refrained from giving details of the unit's 'Notice to Move' timings, figuring that they might be operationally sensitive. But here they are, on the MOD's own website, available for public perusal...

Army website said:

101 (City of London) Engineer Regiment (Explosive Ordnance Disposal)

<snip>...Core capabilities include: High assurance search, bomb disposal and explosive ordnance clearance and dive trained personnel...</snip>



22 Headquarter and Support Squadron (Explosive Ordnance Disposal)

Formed in Halifax on 2 October 1940, the Squadron was based in Chelmsford before a re-organization of bomb disposal companies saw them focussed on East Anglia and the South Midlands. After the War the Squadron continued to clear WW2 ordnance, which included significant finds at the Beckton Gas works, East London (1986), a 1000kg bomb in Bermondsey (1987) and Isle of Dogs (1988). On 1 April 2000 the Squadron was renamed to adopt the title of today, whilst operational experience has included the Falkland Islands, Bosnia Herzegovina, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and the 2012 Olympic Games*. <* that'll be the MACP 'venue search' >

Its current operational role is to support the United Kingdom’s Technical Response Force, with a team held at 3 hours notice to move to respond to a nuclear or radiological incident anywhere in the United Kingdom*. <* tinfoil hats available from the Quartermaster's clothing store... >

RE EOD do lots of cool st, stuff that most of the rest of the army isn't really aware of, certainly not at 'grass roots' level. So it's no surprise to find that persons with no military experience don't know what EOD units are trained for, and capable of.

Caveat: I was an 'in the rear, with the gear' REMF for most of my time with 17 and 22 Sqns,
so didn't get to do any of this "cool st"...


...and so I never got to be issued with black 'combat dress' clothing and equipment.
But every now and then, most of the lads who lived on my floor in the barrack block
would swap their regular cammo for black, and quietly disappear for a few days.
(Hint: Search for "MV NISHA" )


Edit:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-driving-effo...
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/...

More links to freely available, official Government websites, referencing CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear) response planning. There's plenty more out there, but I'm not entirely sure how 'official' or reputable some of the other sites are ,so I've not linked to them.

Edited by yellowjack on Friday 6th May 10:09

[Tony Starks]

I'm going to come across as a complete dofus here, but whats the difference between Radiological and Nuclear?

[yellowjack]

Tony Starks said:

I'm going to come across as a complete dofus here, but whats the difference between Radiological and Nuclear?

I could try to explain it myself, but I'm not really an expert so this...

An International Committee Of The Red Cross document said:

The differences between nuclear agents and radiological agents relate to their different origin.

Nuclear agents are radioactive material generated from nuclear fission or fusion, such as those produced by detonation of a nuclear weapon or releases from damaged nuclear power plants.

Radiological agents are radioactive material generated as by-products and waste from the mineral processing industries, produced for use in industrial applications and medical therapy, or occurring naturally in the environment.

...explains it concisely and probably far more accurately than I could hope to. It's clipped from this document: https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/publications...


Edit:

When I first joined the army, it was "NBC" as in "Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical" warfare. Some years ago it changed to "CBRN" as a result of the changing face of the threat we were training to survive. In the Cold War and conventional wars generally, the enemy threat is from conventional weapons such as high explosive bombs and shells, and projectile weapons like bullets and such. Non-conventional weapons were either Nuclear, Chemical (mustard gas, nerve agents, etc), or Biological (nasty stuff like plague, anthrax and botulism, which can be intentionally both lethal and/or non-lethal).

'Big' players don't tend to faff around with Radiological weapons. Why bother when you have an arsenal of Nuclear missiles at your disposal? But 'rogue' smaller nations without the cash or expertise to buy or develop nukes of their own, and more so terrorist organisations, are more likely to try to scrape together Radiological material into quantities likely to pose a threat. They'll then deliver it by means of an otherwise conventional explosive device, like a sort of 'radioactive shrapnel' that will be effective over a fairly wide area. Hence EOD units holding "containment" equipment, so that in the event that such a device cannot be safely disarmed, it can explode but the containment/mitigation equipment that would be routinely deployed in the event of a credible threat should prevent large scale dispersal of the radioactive materials and thereby defeat the aims of the terrorist group responsible.

Edited by yellowjack on Friday 6th May 11:40

[Tony Starks]

yellowjack said:

...explains it concisely and probably far more accurately than I could hope to. It's clipped from this document: https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/publications...

Edited by yellowjack on Friday 6th May 11:22

Great thanks

So ones been processed and ones a by product. every days a school day, luckily they don't test you anymore lol

[BigMacDaddy]

The iron(man)y of Tony Stark asking questions about radiological/nuclear has not been lost on me....

[Tony Starks]

BigMacDaddy said:

The iron(man)y of Tony Stark asking questions about radiological/nuclear has not been lost on me....

Wait till I get onto engineering

[sugerbear]

jhfozzy said:

llewop said:

dudleybloke said:

Seems the Belgians are handing out iodine tablets to people living anywhere near a nuclear plant.

Something we've done for years - toss up is always between pre-issue, which risks individuals lose them, forget where they have stashed them, or take them when they don't need to, or; have a plan to distribute them in the event of a release or potential release.

Still got mine from when I lived near Sizewell B.

They still give them out as I heard a local radio programme where residents too far away where complaining they didn't receive tablets. Nothing to see here.

http://www.suffolkresilience.com/assets/InfoAdvice...

[llewop]

yellowjack said:

I could try to explain it myself, but I'm not really an expert so this...

An International Committee Of The Red Cross document said:

The differences between nuclear agents and radiological agents relate to their different origin.

Nuclear agents are radioactive material generated from nuclear fission or fusion, such as those produced by detonation of a nuclear weapon or releases from damaged nuclear power plants.

Radiological agents are radioactive material generated as by-products and waste from the mineral processing industries, produced for use in industrial applications and medical therapy, or occurring naturally in the environment.

Hmm

I hate to disagree with you, but not quite the definitions I would normally use, or have seen used.

Nuclear = nuclear event from the device, so nuclear weapon or IND (improvised nuclear device), or I suppose an attack on a nuclear facility, such as a reactor

Radiological = dispersal of radioactive material, or exposing a source in a way to harm. Hence often called RDD - radiological dispersal device

The same material, uranium for instance could be used in both devices, but the nuclear event would produce a whole new set of issues vs just scattering the U around

[otolith]

You wouldn't know a radiological attack had taken place unless you had a radiation detector. Nuclear attacks are somewhat less subtle.