Bye Bye BHS and Austin Reed?
Discussion
I worked in Woolies head office. It had multiple promotional periods a month where stock was pulled from shelves even though they were selling sell to be replaced by a new promo period. Resulting stock sat piled high in warehouses etc. It was archaic, weird. I left as I could see it took its toll on staff there long-term.
Adam Ansel said:
Part 13 of Lord Clark's Civilisation was "Heroic Materialism". In 1969.
The phrase was in use as far back as 1933, under Mussolini. That said, 'to coin a phrase' means only to rehash a phrase used much too often previously. In that regard, rottenicon's phrasing is correct - though that he first used it twenty years ago is probably irrelevant.CoolHands said:
^ you sound like a religious nut.
Anyway it doesn't really matter - the jobs and everything else will simply pass to a more efficient business. Customers can still shop, goods will still be available, jobs will still be provided. It's just passing the batten.
I thought it was an interesting post, not many informed posters left on here these days.Anyway it doesn't really matter - the jobs and everything else will simply pass to a more efficient business. Customers can still shop, goods will still be available, jobs will still be provided. It's just passing the batten.
It would appear that soon, the highstreet will be costalotabucks, primary, endless quid shops and Greggs. The primary, Matalan and H&M model seems to be the way forward.
I wonder if in a couple of years M&S will be facing the same issues. This generation of 0-20s have/are growing up department store free. Those that rely on that model, coupled with an ageing population must be worrying.
I wonder if in a couple of years M&S will be facing the same issues. This generation of 0-20s have/are growing up department store free. Those that rely on that model, coupled with an ageing population must be worrying.
RottenIcons said:
BHS is a victim, the victim of an obligate parasite. The name of this parasite is Mistletoe Capitalism. Green (like so many these days) was an obligate parasite and the kiss of death as he came in and took all the sap out of the Company and was feted by all who looked on. We in the West have recently lost the essential discernment needed to differentiate between good capitalism and bad capitalism. To many (perhaps most) advocates of capitalism there is only the good sort, but that is like saying that every man and woman should be beatified, the holders of the belief that 'making a profit' alone is good are morons. Green parasitised BHS, he got a discrete advantage but at a final cost to 11,000 people.
I am a capitalist because it is the only way we have found that makes huge strides in the advancement of us all, but parasitic capitalism does the exact opposite, it drags down peoples lives and raises only a handful of pariahs. I coined the phrase Heroic Materialism 20 years ago to describe what we should be aiming at, over those two decades the West has become increasingly incapable of the discernment needed to stop another Woolworths.
It appears that no-one is being educated at any time in their life as to how to identify the parasites and stop cheering them on. With BHS those cheers have turned to ashes in many mouths.
I find it a bit strange that you can idolise Donald trump so much on another thread and yet write the above about BHS?I am a capitalist because it is the only way we have found that makes huge strides in the advancement of us all, but parasitic capitalism does the exact opposite, it drags down peoples lives and raises only a handful of pariahs. I coined the phrase Heroic Materialism 20 years ago to describe what we should be aiming at, over those two decades the West has become increasingly incapable of the discernment needed to stop another Woolworths.
It appears that no-one is being educated at any time in their life as to how to identify the parasites and stop cheering them on. With BHS those cheers have turned to ashes in many mouths.
I mean he badly financed a ~$1 billion casino which entered bankruptcy a year later, repurchased 5 years later then bankrupt again after another 8 years and then appeared to have a very rocky period. He also had a dispute with a union and threatened the casino with closure if the union didn't back down over pensions and healthcare.
It sounds desperately sad for BHS-but I can't remember the last time I went into one besides perhaps buying some school trousers about 15 years ago.
Green took his eye off the ball while he was engineering his tax free raid on his business empire. Management of BHS has been poor and just like Woolworths it has ended up without any brand identity to speak of while letting competitors to do what it used to do much better.
Who will be next?
My money would be on Debenhams.
Who will be next?
My money would be on Debenhams.
drivin_me_nuts said:
I wonder if in a couple of years M&S will be facing the same issues. This generation of 0-20s have/are growing up department store free. Those that rely on that model, coupled with an ageing population must be worrying.
M&S apparently makes more money from the food than the clothes so if the clothing looks a bit suspect, dont be surprised if they drop that part of the business. They already have a lot of M&S food only places in stations, airports and smaller towns now.cookie118 said:
RottenIcons said:
BHS is a victim, the victim of an obligate parasite. The name of this parasite is Mistletoe Capitalism. Green (like so many these days) was an obligate parasite and the kiss of death as he came in and took all the sap out of the Company and was feted by all who looked on. We in the West have recently lost the essential discernment needed to differentiate between good capitalism and bad capitalism. To many (perhaps most) advocates of capitalism there is only the good sort, but that is like saying that every man and woman should be beatified, the holders of the belief that 'making a profit' alone is good are morons. Green parasitised BHS, he got a discrete advantage but at a final cost to 11,000 people.
I am a capitalist because it is the only way we have found that makes huge strides in the advancement of us all, but parasitic capitalism does the exact opposite, it drags down peoples lives and raises only a handful of pariahs. I coined the phrase Heroic Materialism 20 years ago to describe what we should be aiming at, over those two decades the West has become increasingly incapable of the discernment needed to stop another Woolworths.
It appears that no-one is being educated at any time in their life as to how to identify the parasites and stop cheering them on. With BHS those cheers have turned to ashes in many mouths.
I find it a bit strange that you can idolise Donald trump so much on another thread and yet write the above about BHS?I am a capitalist because it is the only way we have found that makes huge strides in the advancement of us all, but parasitic capitalism does the exact opposite, it drags down peoples lives and raises only a handful of pariahs. I coined the phrase Heroic Materialism 20 years ago to describe what we should be aiming at, over those two decades the West has become increasingly incapable of the discernment needed to stop another Woolworths.
It appears that no-one is being educated at any time in their life as to how to identify the parasites and stop cheering them on. With BHS those cheers have turned to ashes in many mouths.
I mean he badly financed a ~$1 billion casino which entered bankruptcy a year later, repurchased 5 years later then bankrupt again after another 8 years and then appeared to have a very rocky period. He also had a dispute with a union and threatened the casino with closure if the union didn't back down over pensions and healthcare.
It sounds desperately sad for BHS-but I can't remember the last time I went into one besides perhaps buying some school trousers about 15 years ago.
Green is an entirely different creature to Trump, the only similarity is money. Green has allegedly taken over £600,000,000 from the BHS portfolio and a 100 shops by transfer. He has likely left the shortfall in the accounts to be picked up by us and if we pursue him he will use his British/Israeli citizenship and move to Israel if it gets too hot or we want all our money back.
Trump 'may' or 'may not' have done as you say but he took his 'own kind' to the cleaners.
It's a huge, huge difference. Fleas have fleas that feed on them.
Edited by RottenIcons on Monday 25th April 10:36
TankRizzo said:
INWB said:
My money would be on Debenhams.
I think they're actually doing alright, aren't they? Seem to remember seeing stories about good performance recently.Our local BHS (Basingstoke) has already closed down and the premises are intended to be used by Next for their "home" range.
I'm continually surprised that WH Smiths are still going - surely they're not doing that well?
clonmult said:
Pretty sure I've seen the same.
Our local BHS (Basingstoke) has already closed down and the premises are intended to be used by Next for their "home" range.
I'm continually surprised that WH Smiths are still going - surely they're not doing that well?
£101million profit last year (2015) according to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHSmithOur local BHS (Basingstoke) has already closed down and the premises are intended to be used by Next for their "home" range.
I'm continually surprised that WH Smiths are still going - surely they're not doing that well?
I think a big part of the problem stems from historical overgenerous pension schemes, that only appeared sustainable whilst a business was expanding at a decent rate. As soon as it matures and the no of employees levels off (or decreases), there's not enough people paying in to maintain the pension pot. The current (and subsequent) working population is going to be footing the bill for a lot of the current retired population for a long time. We're working longer, and have to pay in more to get less out. The try to justify it by saying we're all going to live longer and healthier, but I think life expectancy in the developed world is about to plateau - most of us have far unhealthier lifestyles than our recent ancestors. Not just diet, but exercise, working hours/pressures, financial pressures (it's unusual for a couple to have just one bread winner these days). There's only so much medical science can do.
Every time a big corporation/industry fails, there's usually a massive pension deficit lurking in the background. I've known otherwise successful medium to large businesses sold 'cheap' to overseas investors because of a huge pension deficit acting as a millstone.
Every time a big corporation/industry fails, there's usually a massive pension deficit lurking in the background. I've known otherwise successful medium to large businesses sold 'cheap' to overseas investors because of a huge pension deficit acting as a millstone.
ukbabz said:
£101million profit last year (2015) according to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHSmith
Amazing, what do they do that other, more efficient, firms don't?RottenIcons said:
CoolHands said:
^ you sound like a religious nut.
Anyway it doesn't really matter - the jobs and everything else will simply pass to a more efficient business. Customers can still shop, goods will still be available, jobs will still be provided. It's just passing the batten.
Really? I've been called a few things over the years but that's a new one.Anyway it doesn't really matter - the jobs and everything else will simply pass to a more efficient business. Customers can still shop, goods will still be available, jobs will still be provided. It's just passing the batten.
It really does matter, but perhaps because it doesn't effect you directly your insouciance is understandable. Only 'some' of the jobs will transfer and even they will cost us Tax payers something, the rest will cost us dearly. Courtesy of a parasite, if you're happy with that then I suggest rather than calling me some sort of nut, you might consider speaking those words to a mirror. Businesses are variably efficient over time, the idea of having a spread of businesses is to provide broad portfolio to combat this natural fluctuation. The entire principle of take-overs has been corrupted by parasitism.
It's not passing the baton, it's passing the buck and it stinks.
mjb1 said:
I think a big part of the problem stems from historical overgenerous pension schemes, that only appeared sustainable whilst a business was expanding at a decent rate. As soon as it matures and the no of employees levels off (or decreases), there's not enough people paying in to maintain the pension pot. The current (and subsequent) working population is going to be footing the bill for a lot of the current retired population for a long time. We're working longer, and have to pay in more to get less out. The try to justify it by saying we're all going to live longer and healthier, but I think life expectancy in the developed world is about to plateau - most of us have far unhealthier lifestyles than our recent ancestors. Not just diet, but exercise, working hours/pressures, financial pressures (it's unusual for a couple to have just one bread winner these days). There's only so much medical science can do.
Every time a big corporation/industry fails, there's usually a massive pension deficit lurking in the background. I've known otherwise successful medium to large businesses sold 'cheap' to overseas investors because of a huge pension deficit acting as a millstone.
You don't think the money taken out of the business by shareholders and managers could be a problem? If less had been removed through those paths then there would be more for pensions.Every time a big corporation/industry fails, there's usually a massive pension deficit lurking in the background. I've known otherwise successful medium to large businesses sold 'cheap' to overseas investors because of a huge pension deficit acting as a millstone.
What we'd need is a large high street retailer (say maybe a department store) where the staff control the business rather than short termist managers and shareholders. A business such as that could put customers and staff first.
If only there was such an institution that could act as an example to others……
jonah35 said:
The pension issue is unfair. Liabilities paid for by you and me.
Not directly as I understand it.Depending on the type of pension I believe protection comes either via the FSCS (Defined Contribution) or the Pension Protection Fund (Defined Benefit). These are ultimately funded by the institutions providing the schemes, so those providers will no doubt be loading everyone's pension payments to cover this "insurance", but it's something "man in the street" won't really see.
The people who work there may get a reduced pension, though how reduced will depend on their circumstances. I doubt there will be too many significantly worse off as I doubt there'll have been many BHS workers with huge pension pots tbh.
The taxpayer is unlikely to be hit materially ref pension payments specifically, I would think, as a result.
Perhaps companies didn't ought to be allowed to run a deficit at all. But then I think there have been many factors at play on that front over the decades. It's not all the usual pariahs' (the wealthy business owners) fault...
As for BHS, I went in 5yrs ago as someone kindly gave us vouchers for there for our wedding...no need to ever go back in since. Adapt or die. They didn't and did.
I quite liked Austin Reed for somethings. Problem is they had nothing you couldn't get elsewhere, and I suspect the demographic is such that people rarely buy anything (if I'm anything to by!) as clothes like they sell are aren't top of my priority list.
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