The Presidents in town. Are his men packing heat?
Discussion
vsonix said:
98elise said:
vsonix said:
RobDickinson said:
And as for a 'shoot to kill' policy, there is no other way to fire a gun.
Shoot to wound/disable? I'm pretty sure you could kneecap people if stopping them from moving meant they were no longer a threat.I imagine when it comes to QEs funeral it will be a bit like the fight scene in Anchorman, just with every nation and their leaders (armed) security team.
For what it's worth, when the Obama cavalcade came through our sleepy Wiltshire town on the way to Stonehenge it appeared to be UK police outriders clearing the way for them.
For what it's worth, when the Obama cavalcade came through our sleepy Wiltshire town on the way to Stonehenge it appeared to be UK police outriders clearing the way for them.
FourWheelDrift said:
Sober reading.What the frig were they thinking?
Vaud said:
As I understand it, you shoot for the largest target - the body.
Unless you are trying to stop a "terrorist" and you are at point blank range, in which case you want to go through the brain stem, a la Charles Menezes.
Yup - centre mass & head for a finisher. Unless you are trying to stop a "terrorist" and you are at point blank range, in which case you want to go through the brain stem, a la Charles Menezes.
You can't 'shoot to wound' by logical consequence; you have to fear that your life or someone else's is in imminent danger and killing someone is the only way to stop it, under those circumstances you don't want to be aiming for the kneecaps or briefcase and you're justified in killing them anyway - because you have to. If there's no imminent threat then you can sit & have cake with them all day. If it's not 'life' but harm, (fisticuffs, someone with a pool cue) then out with the pepper spray.
Edited by andy_s on Sunday 1st May 17:53
Halb said:
What the frig were they thinking?
When the constitution was being set up..... the concept of America as a country defending itself from foreign evil doers... was a good idea.eg... National Service/ Conscription.... whatever you will.....
But your average Yank reads that as their right to have several hundred fully automatic machine guns, the ability to carry concealed weapons etc etc - to protect themselves from some bloke that might nick their lawnmower.
And... not forgetting that they are true patriots.
But... it is their country, and their right to maim and kill each other.
It is a shame, as a lot of the US is fantastic to see.
But on this issue.... they are very much out of sync with what the majority of civilised countries would expect.
FourWheelDrift said:
4,293 gun deaths so far in 2016 and counting - http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
They are really going to have to try hard to beat the medical error deaths:http://www.hospitalsafetyscore.org/newsroom/displa...
Where are the calls from the lefties to ban hospitals?
Jasandjules said:
FourWheelDrift said:
4,293 gun deaths so far in 2016 and counting - http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
They are really going to have to try hard to beat the medical error deaths:http://www.hospitalsafetyscore.org/newsroom/displa...
Where are the calls from the lefties to ban hospitals?
I trust you understand why that is.
If you don't - I simply don't know what to say to help you understand.
5ohmustang said:
No it is very clear as to what it states.
Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bulls
t.
Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
As for gunviolencarchive soros funded b.s. It is another bullst liberal anti gun think tank.
Toddler deaths how emotionally charged.
As for you wkblog reference yet another liberal blog with their own agenda.
I live in the real world, not the internet hype of gun violence.
Sorry havent yet met any gun toting toddlers or parents that leave there weapons unsecure.
Unfortunately for your argument every armed American I have met was responsible, honest and educated in firearms.
Most if not all of the anti gunners on here have never touched or been near a gun. The most contact you will ever have is the st on the bbc, leftist media outlets, hollywood and the rest of the crooks.
I used to be a brainwashed sheep like you that believed the same lies from your state run media. Then i met crime victims, robbery, rape, all kinds of horror. Had they been armed the offender would not have offended. Good people with guns stop bad people and no leftist graph purporting to be truth is going to convince me otherwise.
Nice try.
I will leave you back to your flatscreen tv that hopefully doesn't get nicked by a gang of chavs during a home imvasion, which you will then turn round and blame the police for not protecting you. It's people like you is why the UK is stuck in the past and accept having a victim mentality.
Back to the matrix.
Give that man a gun.Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bulls
t.Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
As for gunviolencarchive soros funded b.s. It is another bulls
t liberal anti gun think tank. Toddler deaths how emotionally charged.
As for you w
kblog reference yet another liberal blog with their own agenda. I live in the real world, not the internet hype of gun violence.
Sorry havent yet met any gun toting toddlers or parents that leave there weapons unsecure.
Unfortunately for your argument every armed American I have met was responsible, honest and educated in firearms.
Most if not all of the anti gunners on here have never touched or been near a gun. The most contact you will ever have is the s
t on the bbc, leftist media outlets, hollywood and the rest of the crooks.I used to be a brainwashed sheep like you that believed the same lies from your state run media. Then i met crime victims, robbery, rape, all kinds of horror. Had they been armed the offender would not have offended. Good people with guns stop bad people and no leftist graph purporting to be truth is going to convince me otherwise.
Nice try.
I will leave you back to your flatscreen tv that hopefully doesn't get nicked by a gang of chavs during a home imvasion, which you will then turn round and blame the police for not protecting you. It's people like you is why the UK is stuck in the past and accept having a victim mentality.
Back to the matrix.
5ohmustang said:
No it is very clear as to what it states.
Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bullst.
I am open to debate and discussion. I'll leave aside toddlers as a death is a death, every loss is tragic regardless of age.Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bulls
t.I've lived in three countries. UK, Switzerland and the US. I have friends in each. Switzerland and the US have closer gun control similarities and high numbers of households with guns, so I don't see this through a narrow UK perspective. I used to shoot at home (air rifles) and shoot shotguns regularly (clay pigeon mostly) so not anti gun.
But the stats speak from themselves. I understand why Americans seek refuge in the constitution, but the intent at the time was muskets, not an arsenal. Hiding modern issues behind a a 326 year old bill (?) is misguided. Those writing it could not have foreseen the societal or technological change in the country.
As such, any country should write laws that reflect today and tomorrow, not yesterday.
A different relationship with "the gun", a small state and broad freedoms are possible, though compromise is necessary.
5ohmustang said:
No it is very clear as to what it states.
Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
How many sources would it take for you to be open minded?Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/p...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northame...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/benjamin-powers/todd...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/1...
http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-te...
http://time.com/4074648/toddler-gun-violence/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddlers-...
http://reverbpress.com/politics/battlegrounds/todd...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/toddlers-shooting-guns-...
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/toddlers...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/p...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3276622/To...
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/americans-toddler-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33115246
http://www.stlmag.com/news/toddlers-shot-more-peop...
http://gawker.com/report-american-toddlers-respons...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/...
http://www.mtv.com/news/2350741/toddlers-shooting-...
I have around another 250 pages of URL's I can link to.. Possibly... 500 pages.. ( GOOGLE TODDLER GUN SHOOTING )
Fella... the first thing is to recognise that there is a problem.
I think you are in denial of there being a problem.
While you are in denial.... there is no point in even debating.
You can google this stuff yourself.
Fill your boots and report back.
If you would like sources for US deaths against the rest of the world... I will let you google it yourself.
( CLUE: GOOGLE GUN DEATHS BY COUNTRY )
You can post up and prove us wrong.
I'll get my popcorn.
Somehow.. I don't think we will hear you answer the challenge anytime soon.
Gauntlet has been thrown down fella.... fill your boots
Edited by Troubleatmill on Sunday 1st May 20:28
Troubleatmill said:
Fella... the first thing is to recognise that there is a problem.
I think you are in denial of there being a problem.
While you are in denial.... there is no point in even debating.
Agreed. 400,000 deaths from medical mistakes. Do you recognise that as a problem? Or are you in denial that this is a problem? I think you are in denial of there being a problem.
While you are in denial.... there is no point in even debating.
Jasandjules said:
Troubleatmill said:
Fella... the first thing is to recognise that there is a problem.
I think you are in denial of there being a problem.
While you are in denial.... there is no point in even debating.
Agreed. 400,000 deaths from medical mistakes. Do you recognise that as a problem? Or are you in denial that this is a problem? I think you are in denial of there being a problem.
While you are in denial.... there is no point in even debating.
If you genuinely can't see the difference.... there is no way I can explain it to you so you can understand.
Troubleatmill said:
Still a total arse gravy comparison.
If you genuinely can't see the difference.... there is no way I can explain it to you so you can understand.
Still in denial I see. I guess there is no way I can explain it to you that more people are killed by doctors in mistakes than by guns...........If you genuinely can't see the difference.... there is no way I can explain it to you so you can understand.
Jasandjules said:
Troubleatmill said:
Still a total arse gravy comparison.
If you genuinely can't see the difference.... there is no way I can explain it to you so you can understand.
Still in denial I see. I guess there is no way I can explain it to you that more people are killed by doctors in mistakes than by guns...........If you genuinely can't see the difference.... there is no way I can explain it to you so you can understand.
Just explain why a person is 32 times more likely to get murdered by a gun in the US than almost anywhere else in most of the civilised world?
I'm sure you have the figure for medical malpractice to hand... to fill your boots.
Every year 33,000 US citizens die due to guns.
During the Obama administration alone - 230,000 people died due to guns.
From those nice folks at the United Nations.
http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-...
Yup... No problem here...
With the USA at 3.2....
Let's play spot the civilised countries
Edit:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/us-averages-one-mass...
We are now averaging more than one mass shooting per day in 2015
As of August 26th, the US has had 247 mass shootings in the 238 days of 2015.
For those keeping track, that's an average of more than one shooting per day.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Sunday 1st May 21:35
5ohmustang said:
No it is very clear as to what it states.
Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bullst.
Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
As for gunviolencarchive soros funded b.s. It is another bullst liberal anti gun think tank.
Toddler deaths how emotionally charged.
As for you wkblog reference yet another liberal blog with their own agenda.
I live in the real world, not the internet hype of gun violence.
Sorry havent yet met any gun toting toddlers or parents that leave there weapons unsecure.
Unfortunately for your argument every armed American I have met was responsible, honest and educated in firearms.
Most if not all of the anti gunners on here have never touched or been near a gun. The most contact you will ever have is the st on the bbc, leftist media outlets, hollywood and the rest of the crooks.
I used to be a brainwashed sheep like you that believed the same lies from your state run media. Then i met crime victims, robbery, rape, all kinds of horror. Had they been armed the offender would not have offended. Good people with guns stop bad people and no leftist graph purporting to be truth is going to convince me otherwise.
Nice try.
I will leave you back to your flatscreen tv that hopefully doesn't get nicked by a gang of chavs during a home imvasion, which you will then turn round and blame the police for not protecting you. It's people like you is why the UK is stuck in the past and accept having a victim mentality.
Back to the matrix.
Do you actually believe what you write? Britain's sickening gun control? Really?! So let's just say that I've got a gun, let's also imagine that for some weird reason I have the gun on me as I'm watching my wide screen TV, all of a sudden a gang of chavs break in, great, I can shoot them and I will be okay because they won't also have a gun will they.......... I'm not anti gun, I'm anti people shooting each other! Compare to countries with tighter controls? I lived in England for most of my life, that included working for Greater Manchester Police. To tell me the public are safer with your sickening controls is total bulls
t.Troubleatmill, a random graph with no source, great story.
As for gunviolencarchive soros funded b.s. It is another bulls
t liberal anti gun think tank. Toddler deaths how emotionally charged.
As for you w
kblog reference yet another liberal blog with their own agenda. I live in the real world, not the internet hype of gun violence.
Sorry havent yet met any gun toting toddlers or parents that leave there weapons unsecure.
Unfortunately for your argument every armed American I have met was responsible, honest and educated in firearms.
Most if not all of the anti gunners on here have never touched or been near a gun. The most contact you will ever have is the s
t on the bbc, leftist media outlets, hollywood and the rest of the crooks.I used to be a brainwashed sheep like you that believed the same lies from your state run media. Then i met crime victims, robbery, rape, all kinds of horror. Had they been armed the offender would not have offended. Good people with guns stop bad people and no leftist graph purporting to be truth is going to convince me otherwise.
Nice try.
I will leave you back to your flatscreen tv that hopefully doesn't get nicked by a gang of chavs during a home imvasion, which you will then turn round and blame the police for not protecting you. It's people like you is why the UK is stuck in the past and accept having a victim mentality.
Back to the matrix.
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