No wonder there's a problem

[avinalarf]

Just got home from work,logged into the topic about Labour and anti semitism and bingo....the topic's been
closed down.
I just can't trust you lot to keep things friendly.
So if PHers can't debate this Israeli/Palestine topic in a gentlemanly manner what chance for those with a real bone
In the fight.
Seems to prove a point.

[INWB]

avinalarf said:

Just got home from work,logged into the topic about Labour and anti semitism and bingo....the topic's been
closed down.
I just can't trust you lot to keep things friendly.
So if PHers can't debate this Israeli/Palestine topic in a gentlemanly manner what chance for those with a real bone
In the fight.
Seems to prove a point.

Yep.

However talk to palestinians and most say they want peace and live side by side with Israelis. Speak to Israelis and most say they want to live side by side with palestinians.

Lesson - it is always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

[cayman-black]

Arrrh was just looking for that,,,,,,,,must have got out of hand

[princealbert23]

When I left to go to work there was one person posting lots of these stupid sloganised pictures that you see all the time on FB, as if they were meaningful.
It made me think that there should be a limit that any one poster can give to a discussion. You come in, say your piece, responds a couple of times, then sod off. It would stop some of these obsessives (who could start an argument in an empty room)

[avinalarf]

I must admit to a morbid curiosity as to who and why the topic was closed down.
It depresses me when people have such entrenched viewpoints.
Perhaps it's my fault as I usually see things in shades of grey as often most topics in life are never completely black or white.
The statement that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is certainly a case in point.
The true irony of the Israeli/Palestinian problem is that both Jews and Muslims are both hostage to the same misfortune.
Neither have leaders that have a true vision of a peaceful settlement and so in this vacuum the fringe fanatics,on both sides,hold sway.
It's only when you get a truly great leader like Nelson Mandela that things start to change.

Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 28th April 18:51

[Ian Geary]

And is it just me, or are all the 'abhorent' and 'disgusting' remarks all pretty unremarkable? (apart from their lack of racisms).

Seems yet another facet of modern politics where the slightest reference to an issue has to be completely over-reacted to, just in case another chance to completely over-react doesn't come along for a few weeks.

Ian

[gooner1]

Ian Geary said:

And is it just me, or are all the 'abhorent' and 'disgusting' remarks all pretty unremarkable? (apart from their lack of racisms).

Seems yet another facet of modern politics where the slightest reference to an issue has to be completely over-reacted to, just in case another chance to completely over-react doesn't come along for a few weeks.

Ian

No, Ian, it's not just you.

[irocfan]

oops I've just posted a thread on that not realising that things had already gotten out of hand... should've guessed though given it happened early this PM and there's no topic for it

[Einion Yrth]

avinalarf said:

It's only when you get a truly great leader like Nelson Mandela that things start to change.

While I don't entirely disagree, post apartheid SA is scarcely a utopia.

[FredClogs]

I think the charming Adam Ansell may have gone full retard. To be fair the topic of Israel and Palestine has claimed greater victims over the last 1500 years or so...

[avinalarf]

Einion Yrth said:

avinalarf said:

It's only when you get a truly great leader like Nelson Mandela that things start to change.

While I don't entirely disagree, post apartheid SA is scarcely a utopia.

I referred to a great leader and a man wth vision not a Messiah.
Having spent so many of his best years in prison it is remarkable how he overcame the natural desire for retribution but chose instead reconciliation.
You only have to look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe to see the difference.

[Jockman]

FredClogs said:

I think the charming Adam Ansell may have gone full retard. To be fair the topic of Israel and Palestine has claimed greater victims over the last 1500 years or so...

I would guess you are right Fredericko.

[Axionknight]

FredClogs said:

I think the charming Adam Ansell may have gone full retard. To be fair the topic of Israel and Palestine has claimed greater victims over the last 1500 years or so...

too true.

[blindswelledrat]

avinalarf said:

I must admit to a morbid curiosity as to who and why the topic was closed down.
It depresses me when people have such entrenched viewpoints.
Perhaps it's my fault as I usually see things in shades of grey as often most topics in life are never completely black or white.
The statement that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is certainly a case in point.
=

Exactly my sentiments.
I view anyone with an entrenched view in any complex subject as stupid.
Unfortunately the N,P&E section of pistonheads is inhabited largely by the belligerent thick

[Mr_B]

blindswelledrat said:

Exactly my sentiments.
I view anyone with an entrenched view in any complex subject as stupid.
Unfortunately the N,P&E section of pistonheads is inhabited largely by the belligerent thick

I hate the use of those smilie things, but in this case I was tempted for a 'pot and kettle' one.

[blindswelledrat]

Mr_B said:

I hate the use of those smilie things, but in this case I was tempted for a 'pot and kettle' one.

I have an entrenched view in pretty much nothing.
I realise that to the belligerent thick I appear to have, but that is merely the fact that the only way to counter their entrenched view is to argue the opposite to them.
I don't even bother with that any more. It's too boring and it is so evident that people like you are incapable of processing any information that doesn't conform to your prejudices.

[anonymous-user]

Threads about Israel never last long.

We have all the perfect ingredients for an argument. Religion, politics, terrorism the holocaust and the icing on top, the nazis.

As others have pointed out, what hope does this region have when people can't even discus it without threads getting closed after a day or so.

People fighting over religion and territory isn't really a new thing though is it?

[iphonedyou]

princealbert23 said:

When I left to go to work there was one person posting lots of these stupid sloganised pictures that you see all the time on FB, as if they were meaningful.
It made me think that there should be a limit that any one poster can give to a discussion. You come in, say your piece, responds a couple of times, then sod off. It would stop some of these obsessives (who could start an argument in an empty room)

Adam Ansel. He seems unable (or, if not, unwilling) to frame coherent prose so resorts to pictures.

It's really quite odd.

[Hosenbugler]

boxxob said:

blindswelledrat said:

Mr_B said:

I hate the use of those smilie things, but in this case I was tempted for a 'pot and kettle' one.

I have an entrenched view in pretty much nothing.
I realise that to the belligerent thick I appear to have, but that is merely the fact that the only way to counter their entrenched view is to argue the opposite to them.
I don't even bother with that any more. It's too boring and it is so evident that people like you are incapable of processing any information that doesn't conform to your prejudices.

If I understand the OP correctly, you seem, with this post, to have encapsulated the problem perfectly.

+1

[ATG]

blindswelledrat said:

I view anyone with an entrenched view in any complex subject as stupid.

Yup. It's certainly a stupid approach. Doesn't necessarily mean they're actually thick. A lot of people are unnerved by uncertainty. They want there to be simple answers.

But it's completely at odds with reality. Things are rarely black and white. The world doesn't neatly divide into goodies and baddies, them and us.

If you try to understand the world in those terms you will almost always draw the wrong conclusions. Typically people conclude that anyone who disagrees with them must have an ulterior motive. So any politician supporting Better Off In can only be doing it because they hope for a cushy EU job, any politician trying to out source NHS provision is trying to line themselves up with a private sector job, etc, etc. It's a way of thinking that encourages mindless cynicism.