Red Ken suspended

[irocfan]

well I have to say I never saw that coming - always have loathed the and I've been gobsmacked at how much st he was able to get away with saying so I'm really glad it's bitten him on the arse!

As an aside I'm glad to see that when there was a possibility of labour managing to score some hit on the Government they've not just dropped the ball but just tried to fire the ball into their own net! Well done labia

[ThunderGuts]

John Mann (for once)

[saaby93]

Doesnt Ken have the upper hand on this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36161950
As Ken says the difference between being antisemitic and criticising Israel for some of its policies?

[Mr Whippy]

saaby93 said:

Doesnt Ken have the upper hand on this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36161950
As Ken says the difference between being antisemitic and criticising Israel for some of its policies?

Yep.

But.

First they came for the racists.

Then they came for the religionists.

Then they came for the culturalists.

Then they came for the regionalists.

Here they're going for the policyists.


Race made sense, you're born the way you're born. The rest is all choice and if others can't be critical of you, well then we're screwed.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster followers will love Cameron's "effectively racism" thing... being critical about someones religion, belief or culture, however right or wrong you believe it is, is racism?

Hmmmm

Best of all, those things said were all political observations. Race didn't come into it.

I'd be bloody livid if I were not a Jew but living in Israel right now!

Is that retarded MP shouting at Ken on TV going to apologise for all the non-Jews he just suggested were Jewish because they lived in Israel? The racist bd!

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 28th April 20:11

[glazbagun]

I thought his reference to the Nazi's in 1932 was a bit odd, but as far as I am aware, the Nazi's were in favour of resettling the Jews (although I thought it was to Madagascar, not present day/ancient Israel). He may even be correct in what he says, as he obviously seemed fairly confident in his history when he was being bizarrely lambasted by his fellow labourite.

It was quite a spectacle and frankly it's amazing seeing something like this from the party that only a decade ago was Blair's slick PR savvy vote-machine. I guess one thing to take from this is that politicians shouldn't ever invoke Godwin.

I thought Kens other comments about the difference between being critical of Israel and being anti-semetic seemed fairly sensible.

[irocfan]

IIRC the Nazis also made noises about allowing militant Muslims a 'homeland' in Palestine (and there was a Muslim SS division, mind you I think there was also a Jewish SS division so that really doesn't mean much).

There was an incident a few years back where KL accused a journo of being like a Nazi - upon being advised said journo was Jewish and therefore found that incredibly insensitive and insulting his response was something derogatory too. KL, keeping it classy

[basherX]

I've just watched Ken's Daily Politics interview. How very odd. Clearly it's unwise for him to be defending Naz Shah given what she's said but he's obviously painted himself into a corner and (perhaps, being charitable) is too proud to admit a mistake. But the swing, promoted by Clegg (bizarrely) to this piece about Hitler's supposed Zionism was very weird. Clearly I'm missing an earlier interview this morning- anyone care to point me to it?

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

Doesnt Ken have the upper hand on this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36161950
As Ken says the difference between being antisemitic and criticising Israel for some of its policies?

Watching him on The Daily Politics I was reminded of some debates on here.

I think he may well be correct in a very narrow, factual sense. He has spectacularly missed the wider point and massively failed as a politician. I thought Andrew Neil was almost imploring him to stop making such a knob of himself.

Great viewing.

[Previous]

Left wing party tearing itself apart in race to become more left wing-y

[Luther Blisset]

Isn't what he said similar to when people compare Donald Trump to Hitler? i.e. somewhat rhetorical
Just seems like some people are seeking to be offended and will twist words and meanings to achieve that.

[Mr Whippy]

Luther Blisset said:

some people are seeking to be offended

Some?

It seems everyone the BBC throws on the 'news' these days is offended about something.

[Einion Yrth]

Mr Whippy said:

Luther Blisset said:

some people are seeking to be offended

Some?

It seems everyone the BBC throws on the 'news' these days is offended about something.

I feel a bit left out, really. I'm old enough and ugly enough not only to not bother getting offended, but also to realise that if something did happen to offend me, nothing would change, the sun would still rise in the morning, my cat would still wake me up by licking my ear, that sort of thing.

[Axionknight]

Red Ken left himself wide open on this one IMO, his opinions are a different matter entirely but the timing was pretty terrible.

Mann however, I'm not a Labour supporter but his conduct was abysmal, unprofessional and shocking on every level.

[glazbagun]

basherX said:

I've just watched Ken's Daily Politics interview. How very odd. Clearly it's unwise for him to be defending Naz Shah given what she's said but he's obviously painted himself into a corner and (perhaps, being charitable) is too proud to admit a mistake. But the swing, promoted by Clegg (bizarrely) to this piece about Hitler's supposed Zionism was very weird. Clearly I'm missing an earlier interview this morning- anyone care to point me to it?

I can't find the link, but the Independent has an alleged transcript of some of his radio interviews.

The "Hitler was a Zionist" thing seems to be a corruption of an ill-advised throwaway comment about Hitler supporting the expulsion of Jews to Israel prior to his rise in 1932:

redken said:

“Let’s remember, when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."

Now I don't know about 1932, but I'm pretty sure that before the "Final Solution", the plan was to move the Jews to their own colony somewhere. That said, in isolation it seems to read that Ken thinks Hitler was A-OK before he went a bit nutty.

I think it's a problem of our time. On one hand you have a politician speaking his mind and getting blown out of the water for it. On the other you have moral vacuums like Blair and Cameron who are too PR savvy to actually have an opinion on anything. Red Ken should have taken a leaf out of Red Ed's book on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlTggc0uBA8

[MarshPhantom]

I think this may be the start of project bin Corbyn.

[anonymous-user]

MarshPhantom said:

I think this may be the start of project bin Corbyn.

It has that feel about it.

[Type R Tom]

He should have been thrown out the labour party for supporting Lutfur Rahmen (ex labour but standing as an independent) in the Tower Hamlets mayoral election

[Luther Blisset]

Mr Whippy said:

Luther Blisset said:

some people are seeking to be offended

Some?

It seems everyone the BBC throws on the 'news' these days is offended about something.

It seems someone needs to get offended to make it newsworthy and someone always crops up.
"Man gets upset at words" is basically tonight's headline news, and we're expected to go along with the ride and pretend Ken said something he didn't. It made the news difficult to watch as quite frankly it felt like I was being lied to the whole time.

Axionknight said:

Red Ken left himself wide open on this one IMO, his opinions are a different matter entirely but the timing was pretty terrible.

Mann however, I'm not a Labour supporter but his conduct was abysmal, unprofessional and shocking on every level.

After watching it again it looks like an opportunist ambush by Mann. And, like you say, quite unseemly.
Livingstone's point was pretty dumb IMO but I don't think it matters now.

[Halb]

Mr Whippy said:

Is that retarded MP shouting at Ken on TV going to apologise for all the non-Jews he just suggested were Jewish because they lived in Israel? The racist bd!

What an utterly loathsome creature he is. Too stupid to realise what he is shouting about.

glazbagun said:

I thought his reference to the Nazi's in 1932 was a bit odd, but as far as I am aware, the Nazi's were in favour of resettling the Jews

Ken was totally correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreeme...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

"The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew: הסכם העברה Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany."

[williamp]

MarshPhantom said:

I think this may be the start of project bin Corbyn.

Oh I hope not. Why don't they split instead? Burnham is in the news at the moment, so he can split and form a new party, "labourpool".

Corbyn's socialist labour will be rebranded as "national socialists". Just keep telling the press Brexit will split the Tory party in half so we wont look too closely and what is happening to our Comrades.