Red Ken suspended
Discussion
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Why was it anti semitic, this is a delicate topic even for idiots like me on the internet let alone members of parliament, but she didn't say that they should be, she offered a tongue in cheek hyperbolic solution to the age old question of how to solve the Palestinian conflict, on her Facebook a year or two before she was a parliamentarian. I suspect the original point of which was to highlight the amount of money the US spends supporting the state of Israel rather than anything anti semitic.
It's PC gone mad.
Great excuse for anyone, that - ' oh I wasn't being vile, just tongue in cheek you silly delicate petals'. It's PC gone mad.
Joey Ramone said:
franki68 said:
He didn't back a colleague for her criticism of Israel he backed a colleague that stated all the Jews in Israel should be removed and sent to America effectively .
Im not sure how anyone can not construe this as anti semitism.
If one suggested that all Muslims be packed off from the uk to Pakistan for example surely that is racist ?
And the hitter (Hitler) quote maybe accurate,but he used it to link Zionism with the nazis ,that was his intent .
Bearing in mind his previous form,comparing a Jewish journalist to a nazi concentration camp guArd,
and proclaiming he didn't want Jewish support because all Jews were rich.
Supporting an anti Semitic statement and then trying to associate Zionism And the nazis is beyond stupid.
+1Im not sure how anyone can not construe this as anti semitism.
If one suggested that all Muslims be packed off from the uk to Pakistan for example surely that is racist ?
And the hitter (Hitler) quote maybe accurate,but he used it to link Zionism with the nazis ,that was his intent .
Bearing in mind his previous form,comparing a Jewish journalist to a nazi concentration camp guArd,
and proclaiming he didn't want Jewish support because all Jews were rich.
Supporting an anti Semitic statement and then trying to associate Zionism And the nazis is beyond stupid.
Please don't get upset.
1 Netanyahu has made the clarion call for all Jews in Europe to return to Israel, so the movement of Jews seems to be as much a part of the present as it has of the past, the numbers might require a further move for much needed (trigger word warning!) lebensraum.
2 See above.
3 If I recall correctly when the Shah of Iran was deposed there was a similar call from the Ayatollah for all muslims to return home, expulsions, migrations and the call for them come from both sides of the debate.
4 Yes, of course it was, if someone believes that the methodology being used to expel the Palestinians very closely resembles the treatment of the Jews themselves in various expulsions and ghetto building and there is a further similarity of goals then in any reasonable persons thinking the parallel is present and should be called to everyone's attention. This he did, not really an issue.
5 He didn't know the guy was Jewish, perhaps if you want to avoid any such mix up occurring again you might want to consider having Jews wear badges in the future. I don't think turned out too well last time, but at least it would mean you won't accidentally insult a Jew.
6 Commie, the man is vile communist and that is what the vile bast's do, what did you expect?
7 Stupid, oh yes that is undoubtedly true, he's a prannet, but he was historically and actually correct.
Just rejoice that the commie prannet has been vilified by an even bigger commie prannet called Mann and both have put ordure down each other's throats, yesterday was a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by RottenIcons on Friday 29th April 09:57
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Why was it anti semitic, this is a delicate topic even for idiots like me on the internet let alone members of parliament, but she didn't say that they should be, she offered a tongue in cheek hyperbolic solution to the age old question of how to solve the Palestinian conflict, on her Facebook a year or two before she was a parliamentarian. I suspect the original point of which was to highlight the amount of money the US spends supporting the state of Israel rather than anything anti semitic.
It's PC gone mad.
Great excuse for anyone, that - ' oh I wasn't being vile, just tongue in cheek you silly delicate petals'. It's PC gone mad.
I'm also loosing any sort of respect for Guido Fawkes, because whilst my hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance may be obvious (and unashamed) his is becoming a little dangerous.
FredClogs said:
I don't know much about that, but when I read her original comment with the graphic, I read it as a clear criticism of US policy and a rather humorous, if partisan, attempt to highlight the idea that Israel has become a 53rd State - not a serious suggestion that people should be forcibly transported anywhere.
But maybe I'm just reading it the way I want to, though I have no vested interest either way, I'm certainly not over sensitive to the topic as some people seem to be.
I read it the same way.But maybe I'm just reading it the way I want to, though I have no vested interest either way, I'm certainly not over sensitive to the topic as some people seem to be.
I think any who look at it logically and dispassionately, not playing politics or being a member of the professionally offended see the same.
RottenIcons said:
Providing you don't get upset I have broken your post into parts (no editing) and will address each in turn.
Please don't get upset.
1 Netanyahu has made the clarion call for all Jews in Europe to return to Israel, so the movement of Jews seems to be as much a part of the present as it has of the past, the numbers might require a further move for much needed (trigger word warning!) lebensraum.
2 See above.
3 If I recall correctly when the Shah of Iran was deposed there was a similar call from the Ayatollah for all muslims to return home, expulsions, migrations and the call for them come from both sides of the debate.
4 Yes, of course it was, if someone believes that the methodology being used to expel the Palestinians very closely resembles the treatment of the Jews themselves in various expulsions and ghetto building and there is a further similarity of goals then in any reasonable persons thinking the parallel is present and should be called to everyone's attention. This he did, not really an issue.
5 He didn't know the guy was Jewish, perhaps if you want to avoid any such mix up occurring again you might want to consider having Jews wear badges in the future. I don't think turned out too well last time, but at least it would mean you won't accidentally insult a Jew.
6 Commie, the man is vile communist and that is what the vile bast's do, what did you expect?
7 Stupid, oh yes that is undoubtedly true, he's a prannet, but he was historically and actually correct.
Just rejoice that the commie prannet has been vilified by an even bigger commie prannet called Mann and both have put ordure down each other's throats, yesterday was a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Don't worry ,I don't get upset over Internet debates .Please don't get upset.
1 Netanyahu has made the clarion call for all Jews in Europe to return to Israel, so the movement of Jews seems to be as much a part of the present as it has of the past, the numbers might require a further move for much needed (trigger word warning!) lebensraum.
2 See above.
3 If I recall correctly when the Shah of Iran was deposed there was a similar call from the Ayatollah for all muslims to return home, expulsions, migrations and the call for them come from both sides of the debate.
4 Yes, of course it was, if someone believes that the methodology being used to expel the Palestinians very closely resembles the treatment of the Jews themselves in various expulsions and ghetto building and there is a further similarity of goals then in any reasonable persons thinking the parallel is present and should be called to everyone's attention. This he did, not really an issue.
5 He didn't know the guy was Jewish, perhaps if you want to avoid any such mix up occurring again you might want to consider having Jews wear badges in the future. I don't think turned out too well last time, but at least it would mean you won't accidentally insult a Jew.
6 Commie, the man is vile communist and that is what the vile bast's do, what did you expect?
7 Stupid, oh yes that is undoubtedly true, he's a prannet, but he was historically and actually correct.
Just rejoice that the commie prannet has been vilified by an even bigger commie prannet called Mann and both have put ordure down each other's throats, yesterday was a good day as far as I'm concerned.
Edited by RottenIcons on Friday 29th April 09:57
Edited by franki68 on Friday 29th April 10:04
Anti-semitism within Labour is quite predictable...
Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
MrBarry123 said:
Anti-semitism within Labour is quite predictable...
Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
Are you saying that people who are anti-imperial foreign policy, and anti-Israel government become anti-Jew?Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
MrBarry123 said:
Anti-semitism within Labour is quite predictable...
Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
you were doing ok until your last bit which may have been better as anti Israel feelingRegardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
It's this mixing the two that Ken was complaining about and it looks as though some people mixing the two may be the ones who have suspended him.
This whole argument whether of Islamaphobia,anti semitism,colour prejudice etc.are all different faces of the same coin.
Undoubtedly some people are bigoted and judge others blindly on their race,religion or skin colour.
I would like to believe that the great majority of people just want to get on with their lives and live in peace with their neighbour regardless of the above.
It becomes a problem when,usually through either the actions or reactions by governments or political parties, decisions are made that affect that status quo.
For example, the recent wars in the Middle East, the uncontrolled immigration into Europe in a short passage of time.
This has caused,in the first example resentment and grievance to Muslims and in the second example
a fear that "alien" cultures were usurping and changing the current culture of the host country.
It should be perfectly acceptable to discuss these fears and grievances in a rational and reasonable manner,unfortunately this is often not the case and insulting and inflammatory language and worse are promoted by those with an agenda.
Then fear and resentment on both sides materialise and bigots raise their heads to conflate legitimate questions that reasonable people raise with those of racism,anti semitism and Islamaphobia etc.
When confronted by bigotry those that feel threatened and isolated regroup and become isolated and,whilst a natural reaction,this makes things worse as it fuels the fires of intolerance on both sides.
Undoubtedly some people are bigoted and judge others blindly on their race,religion or skin colour.
I would like to believe that the great majority of people just want to get on with their lives and live in peace with their neighbour regardless of the above.
It becomes a problem when,usually through either the actions or reactions by governments or political parties, decisions are made that affect that status quo.
For example, the recent wars in the Middle East, the uncontrolled immigration into Europe in a short passage of time.
This has caused,in the first example resentment and grievance to Muslims and in the second example
a fear that "alien" cultures were usurping and changing the current culture of the host country.
It should be perfectly acceptable to discuss these fears and grievances in a rational and reasonable manner,unfortunately this is often not the case and insulting and inflammatory language and worse are promoted by those with an agenda.
Then fear and resentment on both sides materialise and bigots raise their heads to conflate legitimate questions that reasonable people raise with those of racism,anti semitism and Islamaphobia etc.
When confronted by bigotry those that feel threatened and isolated regroup and become isolated and,whilst a natural reaction,this makes things worse as it fuels the fires of intolerance on both sides.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 29th April 10:20
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Why was it anti semitic, this is a delicate topic even for idiots like me on the internet let alone members of parliament, but she didn't say that they should be, she offered a tongue in cheek hyperbolic solution to the age old question of how to solve the Palestinian conflict, on her Facebook a year or two before she was a parliamentarian. I suspect the original point of which was to highlight the amount of money the US spends supporting the state of Israel rather than anything anti semitic.
It's PC gone mad.
Great excuse for anyone, that - ' oh I wasn't being vile, just tongue in cheek you silly delicate petals'. It's PC gone mad.
If it was a serious suggestion then I'm not sure Shah had considered the logistics of moving an entire country 10000 miles across the Atlantic.
Interesting the right wing press are far more vexed about this than they managed to be about Hillsborough the other day.
avinalarf said:
This whole argument whether of Islamaphobia,anti semitism,colour prejudice etc.are all different faces of the same coin.
Undoubtedly some people are bigoted and judge others blindly on their race,religion or skin colour.
I would like to believe that the great majority of people just want to get on with their lives and live in peace with their neighbour regardless of the above.
It becomes a problem when,usually through either the actions or reactions by governments or political parties, decisions are made that affect that status quo.
For example, the recent wars in the Middle East, the uncontrolled immigration into Europe in a short passage of time.
This has caused,in the first example resentment and grievance to Muslims and in the second example a fear that
"alien" cultures were usurping and changing the current culture of the host country.
It should be perfectly acceptable to discuss these fears and grievances in a rational and reasonable manner,unfortunately this is often not the case and insulting and inflammatory language and worse are promoted by those with an agenda.
Then fear and resentment on both sides materialise and bigots raise their heads to conflate legitimate questions that reasonable people raise with those of racism,anti semitism and Islamaphobia etc.
When confronted by bigotry those that feel threatened and isolated regroup and become isolated and,whilst a natural reaction,this makes things worse as it fuels the fires of intolerance on both sides.
Nice post.Undoubtedly some people are bigoted and judge others blindly on their race,religion or skin colour.
I would like to believe that the great majority of people just want to get on with their lives and live in peace with their neighbour regardless of the above.
It becomes a problem when,usually through either the actions or reactions by governments or political parties, decisions are made that affect that status quo.
For example, the recent wars in the Middle East, the uncontrolled immigration into Europe in a short passage of time.
This has caused,in the first example resentment and grievance to Muslims and in the second example a fear that
"alien" cultures were usurping and changing the current culture of the host country.
It should be perfectly acceptable to discuss these fears and grievances in a rational and reasonable manner,unfortunately this is often not the case and insulting and inflammatory language and worse are promoted by those with an agenda.
Then fear and resentment on both sides materialise and bigots raise their heads to conflate legitimate questions that reasonable people raise with those of racism,anti semitism and Islamaphobia etc.
When confronted by bigotry those that feel threatened and isolated regroup and become isolated and,whilst a natural reaction,this makes things worse as it fuels the fires of intolerance on both sides.
Halb said:
MrBarry123 said:
Anti-semitism within Labour is quite predictable...
Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
Are you saying that people who are anti-imperial foreign policy, and anti-Israel government become anti-Jew?Regardless of how they have portrayed themselves in recent history, their fundamental underpinnings are socialism. They therefore disagree with the vast majority of US domestic policy and therefore, almost by proxy, become opposed to the majority of their foreign policy - including their stance on supporting Netanyahu and his regime in Israel. This subsequently leads to a general anti-Jewish feeling within the Labour party with this undercurrent making itself seen/heard occasionally with events such as this.
MarshPhantom said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Why was it anti semitic, this is a delicate topic even for idiots like me on the internet let alone members of parliament, but she didn't say that they should be, she offered a tongue in cheek hyperbolic solution to the age old question of how to solve the Palestinian conflict, on her Facebook a year or two before she was a parliamentarian. I suspect the original point of which was to highlight the amount of money the US spends supporting the state of Israel rather than anything anti semitic.
It's PC gone mad.
Great excuse for anyone, that - ' oh I wasn't being vile, just tongue in cheek you silly delicate petals'. It's PC gone mad.
If it was a serious suggestion then I'm not sure Shah had considered the logistics of moving an entire country 10000 miles across the Atlantic.
Interesting the right wing press are far more vexed about this than they managed to be about Hillsborough the other day.
Mr_B said:
MarshPhantom said:
Mr_B said:
FredClogs said:
Why was it anti semitic, this is a delicate topic even for idiots like me on the internet let alone members of parliament, but she didn't say that they should be, she offered a tongue in cheek hyperbolic solution to the age old question of how to solve the Palestinian conflict, on her Facebook a year or two before she was a parliamentarian. I suspect the original point of which was to highlight the amount of money the US spends supporting the state of Israel rather than anything anti semitic.
It's PC gone mad.
Great excuse for anyone, that - ' oh I wasn't being vile, just tongue in cheek you silly delicate petals'. It's PC gone mad.
If it was a serious suggestion then I'm not sure Shah had considered the logistics of moving an entire country 10000 miles across the Atlantic.
Interesting the right wing press are far more vexed about this than they managed to be about Hillsborough the other day.
RottenIcons said:
Joey Ramone said:
Bearing in mind his previous form,comparing a Jewish journalist to a nazi concentration camp guArd,
5 He didn't know the guy was Jewish, perhaps if you want to avoid any such mix up occurring again you might want to consider having Jews wear badges in the future. I don't think turned out too well last time, but at least it would mean you won't accidentally insult a Jew.He used the concentration guard quote AFTER the journalist told him he was jewish
From Telegraph & DM: in the High Court in 2006 where Mr Justice Collins said: 'When he knew that Mr Finegold was particularly offended because he was Jewish, to go on to compare him to a concentration camp guard was indefensible.
'He should have realised it would not only give great offence to him but was likely to be regarded as an entirely inappropriate observation by Jews in general, and those who had survived the Holocaust in particular.'
But even putting to one side a little thing like the facts, you seriously think it's OK for a senior politician to compare anyone to a concentration guard, in any circumstances ?
jonby said:
But even putting to one side a little thing like the facts, you seriously think it's OK for a senior politician to compare anyone to a concentration guard, in any circumstances ?
No, unless they're a member of the Royal Family and on the way to a fancy dress party, obvs.You're being silly, when anyone has a jobsworthy unthinking "just following orders mate" attitude it's perfectly reasonable to slap a Godwin on them in repost... Perfectly reasonable, probably not sensible if you're a senior politician mind you.
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