Red Ken suspended

[Ian Geary]

Derek Smith said:

I was told in church that the 'Jews killed Jesus'...

Oh! And they didn't kill Jesus. If it was anyone it was the Romans. And they didn't either.

But surely if God sent Jesus to earth to die for our sins, it was God who killed him...

• * mind blown ***

Still, the topic is about strict adherence to Socialist dogma, and not about adherence to strict religious dogma (though the two seem pretty close a lo of the time)

High priest Livingstone will now get 365 days instead of Jesus's 40

[audidoody]

I wonder if Church-going anti-Semites comprehend the irony of venerating a dead Jewish man hanging from a cross

[BlackLabel]

Jeremy Corbyn has called for a meeting of the party's ruling executive committee to discuss new "offensive remarks" made by Ken Livingstone relating to Hitler and zionism. It comes just hours after a previous 11 month investigation into alleged anti-Semitic comments made by the former London Mayor reached a conclusion and opted to suspend him from the party.

[grantone]

simonrockman said:

...
At the end of last year I gave Jeremy Corbyn a lift home from an event
...

Wrong thread, but any interesting snippets from your time with him? In my mind he's probably good company when talking about his hobbies.

[simonrockman]

Type R Tom said:

He should have been thrown out the party years ago for supporting dodgy Tower Hamlets Mayor Lutfur Rahman who was standing as an independent.

Sod that, Livingstone stood as an independent himself. There should have been no way back from just that.

[Biker 1]

Why can't red Ken just keep his trap shut???? Maybe he has been quoted out of context. Maybe he actually believes the st he spouts. But surely he's not totally stupid? There must be some other motive/end game in play here. Buggered if I know though....

[Burwood]

Biker 1 said:

Why can't red Ken just keep his trap shut???? Maybe he has been quoted out of context. Maybe he actually believes the st he spouts. But surely he's not totally stupid? There must be some other motive/end game in play here. Buggered if I know though....

He is so full of hatred, coupled with sheer arrogance. He clearly is stupid. Every time I hear someone screwing up their career over a Hitler type comment I think, wtf. It is just one of those things, expunge it from your mind. Never talk about it, ever!

[Type R Tom]

simonrockman said:

Type R Tom said:

He should have been thrown out the party years ago for supporting dodgy Tower Hamlets Mayor Lutfur Rahman who was standing as an independent.

Sod that, Livingstone stood as an independent himself. There should have been no way back from just that.

Didn't know that but you're right.

[PurpleAki]

grantone said:

He's probably good company when talking about his hobbies.

Jam and Diane Abbott?

[simonrockman]

grantone said:

Wrong thread, but any interesting snippets from your time with him? In my mind he's probably good company when talking about his hobbies.

No not really. I did have the perverse pleasure, as he directed me to his house of having Jeremy Corbyn tell me to "go right", :-)

Simon

[tommunster10]

Why does this not fit under the "why is everyone so easily offended" mantra trotted out round PH?

Without reading back I take the usual guys like WinstonWolf have been all over this defending Ken?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

https://www.facebook.com/david.baddiel.1/posts/101...

David Baddiel pretty much nails it.

[tommunster10]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

https://www.facebook.com/david.baddiel.1/posts/101...

David Baddiel pretty much nails it.

True, he does nail it, but is this subject one of the untouchable ones when it comes to offending people?
It does seem when people say "why is everyone so easily offended" or "PC gone mad" there are certain subjects which are off limits. Which is a bit hypocritical.
If this was some alt right person who had said something about Muslims he'd have a lot more sympathy.
Ken in his defense had and has an opinion, one which is shared by others including Jewish folks. I personally don't agree it happened the way Ken thinks it did and as he has freedom of speech Labour has freedom to chastise him also.
But I am curious why PH isn't rallying around another example of stifled freedom to speak ones mind and "so easily offended snowflakes"..

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 6th April 14:49

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 6th April 14:50

[AndStilliRise]

tommunster10 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

https://www.facebook.com/david.baddiel.1/posts/101...

David Baddiel pretty much nails it.

True, he does nail it, but is this subject one of the untouchable ones when it comes to offending people?
It does seem when people say "why is everyone so easily offended" or "PC gone mad" there are certain subjects which are off limits. Which is a bit hypocritical.
If this was some alt right person who had said something about Mulsims he'd have a lot more sympathy.

^Think i like him now. For one reason i thought he was a Zionist.

[WinstonWolf]

tommunster10 said:

Why does this not fit under the "why is everyone so easily offended" mantra trotted out round PH?

Without reading back I take the usual guys like WinstonWolf have been all over this defending Ken?

Ken's a , and you've just demonstrated that you're a prejudicial idiot.

You only know that which I chose to write, it doesn't mean you know anything about how I think...

[jonby]

AndStilliRise said:

tommunster10 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

https://www.facebook.com/david.baddiel.1/posts/101...

David Baddiel pretty much nails it.

True, he does nail it, but is this subject one of the untouchable ones when it comes to offending people?
It does seem when people say "why is everyone so easily offended" or "PC gone mad" there are certain subjects which are off limits. Which is a bit hypocritical.
If this was some alt right person who had said something about Mulsims he'd have a lot more sympathy.

^Think i like him now. For one reason i thought he was a Zionist.

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you mean by 'zionist' ? As a jew, I find it fascinating when people use the term because to me, it simply means supporting the right of Israel to exist but I'm never quite sure what other people mean by it

Getting back to Ken Livingstone, for me the issue is actually very little to do with whether there is a way of just about proving that what he said might not be factually inaccurate. Livingstone wants to divert attention to an argument over the factual accuracy of his statements, because it suits his purpose. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with him - I'm afraid I side more with just about every expert on the planet than I do with Ken Livingstone over analysis of the Nazis in WWII

But it's his borderline obsession with bringing up Hitler, Nazis, the SS, concentration camps, jews and the holocaust on so many occasions, none of which ever have anything to do with the subject matter being discussed, that make one question what the wider purpose is and concerns me far more. Unless he has some kind of mental tourettes like affliction where he literally can't help himself, he has an agenda. This is not one, two or three incidents but many, over many years.

Take for instance his likening of someone to a concentration camp guard. It's not the worst crime in the world to say what he said. It's permitable under free speech. But this is the ex mayor of london we are talking about, who used that analogy in public, was slated for it, refused to apologize and then continues to bring up references to the holocaust whenever he can. He knows it's inappropriate, he's a public figure, he continues to behave this way. In the transcript IIRC the reporter states that he is jewish (when asked if he is a german war criminal) and KL goes on to liken him to a concentration camp guard after being told the reporter is jewish, What exactly does that say about the man ?

[MrBrightSi]

jonby said:

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you mean by 'zionist' ? As a jew, I find it fascinating when people use the term because to me, it simply means supporting the right of Israel to exist but I'm never quite sure what other people mean by it?

I browse a lot of forums and have found the most common meaning of "Zionist" is someone looking for Israel to hold the lands in the old testament, complete the 3rd temple all that spiel.

I unlike those who hold that view, see Israel as a not-so-perfect democracy within the most backwards part of the world. I have no love for the Palestinians or their cause. When they were defeated and a large chunk fled to Jordan they proved just how worthy their cause is by pushing the Jordanians to start the Black September war and kick their state within a state arses out with Arafat included.

[Burwood]

MrBrightSi said:

jonby said:

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you mean by 'zionist' ? As a jew, I find it fascinating when people use the term because to me, it simply means supporting the right of Israel to exist but I'm never quite sure what other people mean by it?

I browse a lot of forums and have found the most common meaning of "Zionist" is someone looking for Israel to hold the lands in the old testament, complete the 3rd temple all that spiel.

I unlike those who hold that view, see Israel as a not-so-perfect democracy within the most backwards part of the world. I have no love for the Palestinians or their cause. When they were defeated and a large chunk fled to Jordan they proved just how worthy their cause is by pushing the Jordanians to start the Black September war and kick their state within a state arses out with Arafat included.

As a Jew I would need context as most will use the word Zionist to mean Jew. I don't really care. I know an anti-semite when i hear one and I'm not easily offended, nor am I even mildly religious but thats how i was raised.

I genuinely believe most of it comes from a need to find a victim, bully, insult, attack someone. Ignorance goes hand in hand but is no excuse. The last anti-semitic comments i was at a wedding. Drink flowing. All I hear was 'fking Jews' from a moron at the bar. I asked him what's his problem with Jews. He told me they were all c.... so i knocked him down with a couple of punches. Job done. No time for st like that.

[HerrSchnell]

Burwood said:

He told me they were all c.... so i knocked him down with a couple of punches. Job done. No time for st like that.

Walter, is that you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfcxUiZCHQ

[MrBrightSi]

Burwood said:

MrBrightSi said:

jonby said:

Out of genuine curiosity, what do you mean by 'zionist' ? As a jew, I find it fascinating when people use the term because to me, it simply means supporting the right of Israel to exist but I'm never quite sure what other people mean by it?

I browse a lot of forums and have found the most common meaning of "Zionist" is someone looking for Israel to hold the lands in the old testament, complete the 3rd temple all that spiel.

I unlike those who hold that view, see Israel as a not-so-perfect democracy within the most backwards part of the world. I have no love for the Palestinians or their cause. When they were defeated and a large chunk fled to Jordan they proved just how worthy their cause is by pushing the Jordanians to start the Black September war and kick their state within a state arses out with Arafat included.

As a Jew I would need context as most will use the word Zionist to mean Jew. I don't really care. I know an anti-semite when i hear one and I'm not easily offended, nor am I even mildly religious but thats how i was raised.

I genuinely believe most of it comes from a need to find a victim, bully, insult, attack someone. Ignorance goes hand in hand but is no excuse. The last anti-semitic comments i was at a wedding. Drink flowing. All I hear was 'fking Jews' from a moron at the bar. I asked him what's his problem with Jews. He told me they were all c.... so i knocked him down with a couple of punches. Job done. No time for st like that.

I think a lot of the dislike is not against Jews within Israel, but sometimes the questionable actions of certain Jewish diaspora. One figure of hate oft quoted is Barbra Spetcre.

"Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role, and without that transformation, Europe will not survive."

Before i'm arrested for antisemitism or something, please appreciate Im sharing my experiences of Jewish hatred from various forums i lurk on and things i've also heard from people, i dislike spectre if she honestly said that, but not because she's Jewish, but because people like her are destructive to western culture, her trying to bring all jews into her delusion is dangerous too.