Do you know a subordinating conjunction or a preposition?
Discussion
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language but just about every kid on the continent and loads of other places all over the world manage to understand and speak english to a high level as a second language. How can it be too hard for us to learn?
fblm said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language...
Has anyone said that? deadslow said:
fblm said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language...
Has anyone said that? Lucas CAV said:
deadslow said:
fblm said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language...
Has anyone said that? deadslow said:
Lucas CAV said:
deadslow said:
fblm said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language...
Has anyone said that? 
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language but just about every kid on the continent and loads of other places all over the world manage to understand and speak english to a high level as a second language. How can it be too hard for us to learn?
That was my earlier questionDo kids in other countries need to know what a subordinating conjunction is?
saaby93 said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language but just about every kid on the continent and loads of other places all over the world manage to understand and speak english to a high level as a second language. How can it be too hard for us to learn?
That was my earlier questionDo kids in other countries need to know what a subordinating conjunction is?
17. Gibb said primary school children need 'grammar' so they can write essays at university. Could be taught when they're older, then!
16. One powerful way of learning how to write is through imitation, not through naming of parts.
15. If you don't believe there are different versions of grammar, just try 'phrase' and 'clause' ?#?fuzzyterms?
14. There isn't one way to write English. There many kinds of writing.
13 Native speakers of English know most of the 'rules' or patterns of English by the time they are 4.
12. This grammar testing has been hijacked for pupils to have 'summative' testing. 'Formative' testing better for this
11. Even if some of this 'grammar' is helpful,much is only really understood by older pupils.
10. There are much better ways to teach children 'knowledge about language' using 'investigation' and 'interpretation'
9. The stress that some children are going through is not imagined.
8. The terms are being used so children have to include examples of them to write 'well'. This is nonsense.
7. Many of the terms in the tests are not needed or useful for anyone in order to write well.
6. No harm in children knowing a small amount of this stuff. Part of the problem is that there's so much of it.
5. This 'grammar' was selected for tests because supposedly it gives 'right/wrong answers'. Gibb proves that wrong.
4. Linguists themselves disagree over the terms.That's why Nick Gibb got his answer 'wrong'. For some it was 'right'
3. This grammar is not 'the 3 Rs'. It's a set of specific terminology about language.
2. The grammar being tested is not 'the' grammar', or the only grammar. There are different versions.
1. It's not really the children being tested. Their results are being used to test the teachers and the schools.
edit for source
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/not...
Edited by Lucas CAV on Wednesday 4th May 19:26
dandarez said:
There is enough stress later on without it this early on.
It's a tricky balancing act. Research published not too long ago (can't find my file with the reference as yet) by the Institute for Fiscal Studies demonstrates that failure at an early age remains the biggest hurdle to university entrance for the vast majority of pupils from deprived backgrounds, rather than discrimination by admissions tutors as often (wrongly) claimed. Without assessment that can discriminate - this time as in tell apart - the future learning needs of able disadvantaged pupils as well as average Joes and Janes then there will be children seriously let down at an early age.Lucas CAV said:
15. If you don't believe there are different versions of grammar, just try 'phrase' and 'clause' ?#?fuzzyterms?
14. There isn't one way to write English. There many kinds of writing.
5. This 'grammar' was selected for tests because supposedly it gives 'right/wrong answers'. Gibb proves that wrong.
4. Linguists themselves disagree over the terms.That's why Nick Gibb got his answer 'wrong'. For some it was 'right'
I have a bookshelf behind me at the moment. On it there are a number of books, including:14. There isn't one way to write English. There many kinds of writing.
5. This 'grammar' was selected for tests because supposedly it gives 'right/wrong answers'. Gibb proves that wrong.
4. Linguists themselves disagree over the terms.That's why Nick Gibb got his answer 'wrong'. For some it was 'right'
The Oxford Guide to Style,
The Times English Style and Usage Guide,
Collins Dictionary for Writers and Editors,
The Penguin Guide to Plain English, and
The Oxford Good English!
It takes little effort to discover where they disagree.
When I was a printer I had a dozen or so 'styles of the house', which varied considerably but all were correct, but not for all customers.
I also have in my Scrabble box a copy of the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, edition around '66 or so. It is my secret weapon as my rules state that if it is in the book, it is allowed. It contains words that are not in more current editions.
The English language is not set in stone. There is, unlike French, no official English language or grammar. And it is the stronger for that attitude.
As pointed out, right and wrong do not apply all times or at any one time to English grammar.
As an afterthought:
Being able to name specific tenses (and other definitions) is the same as in the study of Shakespeare building a model of the Globe.
Edited by Derek Smith on Wednesday 4th May 19:55
Lucas CAV said:
17. Gibb said primary school children need 'grammar' so they can write essays at university. Could be taught when they're older, then!
Don't get me wrong. 
;)I'm in favour of grammar eg their there they're apostrophes who's whose
It also doesn't take much to realise that 'after' can be used to join two sentences together, probably not too long after learning to talk.
Oh dear what have I said there
deadslow said:
fblm said:
deadslow said:
folks can make all the excuses they like for why no-one needs to understand their own first language...
Has anyone said that? Einion Yrth said:
If kids were learning a second, or indeed third, language, this would likely be part of their curriculum anyway. It isn't difficult for most and for those for whom it is we need to be looking for another educational route.
ok if we talk welsh medium - what subordinating conjunctions are at the fore?Lucas CAV said:
Well I don't know "this stuff" and I think my English is reasonable - so what's your point?
It's comforting to think that as a nation we are setting ourselves "reasonable" as a quality standard target. If we're setting ourselves the same targets in mathematics, engineering, the sciences etc, our future is truly rosy.
Derek Smith said:
.. .
As an afterthought:
Being able to name specific tenses (and other definitions) is the same as in the study of Shakespeare building a model of the Globe.
My mother would be dismayed at the following use of the language, but what a load of bAs an afterthought:
Being able to name specific tenses (and other definitions) is the same as in the study of Shakespeare building a model of the Globe.
ks. Tenses are now too hard to learn too...?
It's no wonder our ability at second languages is so poor when we treat our own with disdain.
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