Pigs at the trough 2016

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Sump said:

crankedup said:

Sump said:

I'm getting really sick of poor people just sticking their noses into literally everything. Honestly, why can't they just do their work and keep quiet. They insist of having an opinion on absolutely everything regardless of whether they have any knowledge or experience on the issue in hand. They act like they constantly see the picture in awe of being "ahead of the curve." Oh do fk off.

Yes it's so awful isn't it, it must really distress you every day to see democracy at work. Never me you can always shuffle off to Moscow for some relief from it all.

It's hardly democracy. It's not like everyone has the exact same jobs, the exact same working hours, the exact same responsibilities and the exact same pressures. As long as these differentiate between people, pay will differentiate.

To try and have a society where everyone is somewhat equal is not only impossible but just unrealistic.

Who is talking about an equal society? I have no objections regarding differing pay rates for different jobs, this is a good driver that releases ambition after all. In this instance I was relating to free speech in democracy.
My objection is the year on year grossly excessive remuneration within FTSE CEO and boards, their unparalleled greed it seems enough is never enough. CEO improves Company profits by 6% over the previous year, this had the effect of doubling the pay packet to 20 million pounds. The CEO average is around 1000 x the median, twenty years back or thereabouts this average was 247x. All sense of proportion and sanity seems to have left the boardrooms years back.

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Sump said:

Before I reply to that, do you have a problem with football players earning what they earn?

why do you ask?

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0000 said:

crankedup said:

Rovinghawk must be having a day at the seaside or he isn't aware Simon Walker is the boss of Institute of Directors. Like me and thousands of shareholders he. Is a very fierce critic of excessive bosses pay. Presume that rovinghawk will diss him as jealous because his income isn't excessive.
Apparently Mr Walker again warned last week that unless excessive pay was reined in public pressure will force the Government into the introduction of legislation which will rein in the payments.
Sooner the better.

Well, he did grow up in a house with a picture of Stalin above the mantlepiece. So far as I can work out the IoD are financially dependent upon spamming the hell out of anyone listed with Companies House. No wonder their membership is in decline.

And what exactly has that got to do with the thread, 'as far as you can work out' or put another way you really don't know but feel the need to make an attempt in minimising the effect of true facts.

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Rovinghawk said:

Jockman said:

Some people are not primarily motivated by money.

I'm not. This is why I don't bleat about others earning more.

You don't feel the need to bleat because you do not have any connections with investments perhaps? Why do you think shareholders make their voices heard at the meetings, anger at the CEO and board regarding wages they earn? Surely not!

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0000 said:

crankedup said:

0000 said:

crankedup said:

Rovinghawk must be having a day at the seaside or he isn't aware Simon Walker is the boss of Institute of Directors. Like me and thousands of shareholders he. Is a very fierce critic of excessive bosses pay. Presume that rovinghawk will diss him as jealous because his income isn't excessive.
Apparently Mr Walker again warned last week that unless excessive pay was reined in public pressure will force the Government into the introduction of legislation which will rein in the payments.
Sooner the better.

Well, he did grow up in a house with a picture of Stalin above the mantlepiece. So far as I can work out the IoD are financially dependent upon spamming the hell out of anyone listed with Companies House. No wonder their membership is in decline.

And what exactly has that got to do with the thread, 'as far as you can work out' or put another way you really don't know but feel the need to make an attempt in minimising the effect of true facts.

If you make an appeal to dubious authority, expect it to be considered questionable.

I would rather accept the boss of the institute of directors considerations than some unknown poster on a motoring forum. Besides which mr Walker is spot on whereas you are not, but hey ho.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Rovinghawk......... isn't aware Simon Walker is the boss of Institute of Directors.

Didn't know, don't care.

crankedup said:

Presume that rovinghawk will diss him as jealous because his income isn't excessive.

Don't know, don't care.

crankedup said:

Apparently Mr Walker again warned last week that unless excessive pay was reined in public pressure will force the Government into the introduction of legislation which will rein in the payments.
Sooner the better.

He can predict the future?

Edited by Rovinghawk on Sunday 8th May 20:45

Quite, not much to contribute have you, aside from personal remarks to myself.l

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Well their we have just another thoughtful and unintelligent debating point.

Apart from the bad spelling, this makes no sense and so tends to undermine whatever you were trying to say.

You're jealous that someone is making a lot more money than you & you're trying to justify your envy by wrapping it up in moral socialism.

No insult from rovinghawk, here is what you said, nothing to do directly with the subject matter just a poke at me!
I have no objection at all to a good debate or argument, but to simply post this personal insult with worse to follow is unacceptable.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

mr Walker is spot on whereas you are not, but hey ho.

He knows what the future holds? How can he do this? I think he's guessing.

You seem to be blinkered, if the boss of the insituition of directors sends out warnings, thousands of shareholders voice dissatisfaction and reject company following company pay board recommendations.Another shareholders 'Spring' looming this year with the media stirring the pot I fail to understand how anybody, opposed or not, can fail to recognise or at least acknowledge the problem shareholders voice regarding excessive board pay.
Obviously we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this matter and I will never be able to convince you to move from your current position, oh well as you say, whatever.

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0000 said:

crankedup said:

I would rather accept the boss of the institute of directors considerations than some unknown poster on a motoring forum. Besides which mr Walker is spot on whereas you are not, but hey ho.

You've picked the wrong place to post your thread then.

On the contrary, this and others that either have no opinion or disagree with a 'shareholders spring' are the very places or venues that need to be picked out for debate. It's pointless preaching to the converted. In any other debate I would expect people to at least know of the boss of the insituite of directors!

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

mr Walker is spot on whereas you are not, but hey ho.

He knows what the future holds? How can he do this? I think he's guessing.

Stuff.

You say Walker has predicted what the govt will do unless his suggestions are met. I ask how he knows the future & you haven't answered that.
If his prophecy isn't definite then maybe his other comments aren't 100% certain.

I should have said Mr Walker has warned that the Government MAY step in. My error, apologies.
Nobody knows the future I agree, but some are in better situations or positions than others to make considered judgements regarding the future. It's what CEO and board members do for a living and then make the predictions into reality. So it's not some form of mystical power, simply influence. Walker certainly carries influence, not enough to go it alone regarding this discussion matter but enough to drive the objections forward imo.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

I would expect people to at least know of the boss of the insituite of directors!

I refer you to my earlier comment about "Don't know, don't care." I presume that many others feel the same way.

Maybe, but I just find it surprising that on a forum such as this being full of big hairy chested company directors that you make such a presumption. The institute has multiple tens of thousands of members and is the leading institute for directors of companies both large and small. The boss is very proactive consulting with the powerful and influential people, including Government, by no means remaining silent behind his desk. This is why his stance against excessive boardroom pay is very relevant and seriously considered.

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0000 said:

Are you a director?

I sold my business and retired some years back now. The opportunity arose to be able to sell up to an American Company and we took it. The American Company was very active buying up businesses such as mine, independant. After purchase they retained the independant name as part of their strategy. I couldn't, at the time of their aggressive buyouts see the future for independents as being one of continued growth or perhaps viability in the longer term. Small man meets American giant.
I'm not bleating about it, in fact looking back we did OK by it.

Having divulged a little of myself, care to return the complement?

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Jockman said:

crankedup said:

Maybe, but I just find it surprising that on a forum such as this being full of big hairy chested company directors that you make such a presumption.

You make an assumption to critique a presumption. Classic

No assumption made by me here! Merely expressed surprise. The reference to the big hairy chested directors in here is a very long standing 'in joke'.

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0000 said:

I'm a director. Did you decide the IoD membership was worth it at the time?

No, I was a member of various Institutes but all concerning my business activity. The business was directly related to Burials and cremations, I found the professional Insitutes offered everything required of the business and personally in terms of training, legislation and all the rest of it. Been retired for almost fifteen years now, I can fully recommend such action to others.

Can you tell me of the business you are involved with, just curious, nothing more.

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Jockman said:

crankedup said:

0000 said:

I'm a director. Did you decide the IoD membership was worth it at the time?

No, I was a member of various Institutes but all concerning my business activity. The business was directly related to Burials and cremations....

My line of business too, but on the 'wood' side. I left IoD many years ago as I didn't find it relevant.

I was very heavily involved with the creation of 'Woodland Burials', introducing the concept back in 1997. It was my last major major initiative before retiring. At the time of creating and evolving I found it quite stressful with far to many media activities going on along with promoting the concept. I seriously considered buying disused farmland and such like for the use of woodland burial grounds, however the legislation was so tight regarding burial grounds and the capital investment required made me decide against it. The return on capital was also, by the very nature of the business, very protracted making the decision not to invest fairly easy. Looking back I should have gone for it and then sold off the grounds as the concept grew. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Meanwhile at least I can leave something positive behind valued by Society.

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Chance to blow my very old trumpet. When we introduced woodland burials the only other site was in Scotland. I wanted to provide a service choice away from the usual Victorian municipal cemetery with all its dreadful, imo, restrictive regulations. We introduced the concept of providing a burial space without headstones, instead we planned for trees to be planted instead. Bereaved were invited to a tree planting service whereby they could, if they so wished, to plant a tree. Also to sow wildflower seeds and plant native woodland bulbs. Memorial plaques could be purchased and attach these to a timber wall nearby. Many other new ideas included the provision of a Memorisl garden like no other introducing a large water pool, rustic seating and so on. One problem we had was to overcome the idea of coffins not being, at the time, traditional
.MDF with plastic adornment was not permitted to be used in woodland burials. I invited businesses involved in the industry to come forward with new ideas. This was all met with some hostility with some suggesting the concept would ruin business. Nothing further from the truth, it actually enhanced businesses by offering an alternative to the established.
It's the one thing that I can say gave the most satisfaction in my professional life and I remain today with pride that I was able to offer this service as the only business to do so in the UK except Scotland.

Now my cat is out of its bag.

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Jockman said:

fblm said:

crankedup said:

I was very heavily involved with the creation of 'Woodland Burials'

I never heard of it till now. Thats a great idea.

Doing very well and the big boys (Coop, Bibby etc) are now in on the act. Can be a very expensive option and I'm heavily regulated in what I can provide.

Yes it was the regulation aspects that stopped/saved me from setting up the concept with my own grounds. The last nail in the coffin (apt) was the natural water ducts, streams, ditches and run off. The complexity and expense involved in resolving those issues would have been horrendous. Then the requirements of public facilities. I could handle with the actual burial legislation fairly easily but otherwise I thought let others do it. Sold out and retired.

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^^^^^^^^

Thank you Jockman, very kind of you to say so. I'm pleased that the industry has been enhanced and now I think it's getting to the stage whereby if a funeral director is not offering a woodland choice they are not serving their customer well.

Looked back over my old papers and the first cemetery to open for woodland burials was in 1996. How time has flown by.
The early cardboard coffins were quite dreadful, especially if the deceased was on the heavy side! Lots of ideas developed such as wicker and novelty styles.
The only reason MDF or chipboard was not permitted was the inclusion of toxic glues within the material at that time.

I myself am opting for a woodland burial, naturally. We have a site nearby in Culford which I will have a look at. Never know they may offer me a consultancy although I rather feel that I may have left it to late for that!

Edited by crankedup on Monday 9th May 20:19

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Jockman said:

crankedup said:

^^^^^^^^

Thank you Jockman, very kind of you to say so.

Looked back over my old papers and the first cemetery to open for woodland burials was in 1996. How time has flown by.
The early cardboard coffins were quite dreadful, especially if the deceased was on the heavy side! Lots of ideas developed such as wicker and novelty styles.
The only reason MDF or chipboard was not permitted was the inclusion of toxic glues within the material at that time.

I myself am opting for a woodland burial, naturally. We have a site nearby in Culford which I will have a look at. Never know they may offer me a consultancy although I rather feel that I may have left it to late for that!

Yeah, unfortunately there is still formaldehyde in chipboard glue - holding the chips together. About a crisp bag worth for a batch of chipboard the size of your car but it is there. Cardboard is still poor, although honeycomb cardboard is proving stronger and more appealing.

We can also organise to 'wrap' your coffin in spitfires, aston martins, flowers, TUC letterheads...whatever. Lots of pictures filled with memories. Don't get me started on our new wool coffin range......

The old 'traditional' funeral will I suspect become less popular over time, perhaps it has already. Can I ask about these wool shrouds, I am intrigued. Been retired for years and yet here I am inquiring, but this time the end user will be me, but not for a goo number of years I hope.

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Jockman said:

Not wool shrouds. Wool coffins with a softwood frame.

Not baaahd looking but pricey

:big laugh: