Advice needed on buying a K-Series Caterham Seven
Discussion
Hi,
I'm considering buying a Caterham 7 based around the K-Series engine, and would appreciate some advice.
I'll firstly give you some background information about myself. It's been a dream of mine to own a Caterham Seven ever since I was a teenager. My original plan was to buy a new car from a kit and build it myself. However, various real life issues always got in the way (lack of money, lack of garage space, lack of time, health problems, etc.) and eventually I moved on to other things.
Anyway, I'm now in the position of having to purchase a new car, and for the first time in over 20 years, I'm once again seriously considering buying a Caterham Seven. However, I'm beginning to realise that a lot has changed in the Caterham world since I've been away. And unfortunately, it's mostly not for the better.
The hassle and expense of putting a car through the (increasingly ridiculous) IVA test has put me off the idea of buying a kit. I'm also a bit shocked by the current prices. Caterhams were never exactly cheap, but their prices seem higher than I remember. In particular, their entry level 160 model seems poor value compared to the K-Series based classic model that it replaced (although it does tick a lot of my boxes).
I'm also not keen on the changes that Caterham have made to the styling of their new cars. I prefer the 60s styled Sevens with big chrome headlights, clamshell wings, bench seats, etc. I also happen to think that Caterham's new square badge is hideous. That's obviously a minor point, but it does suggest that the people currently running the company don't share my taste.
So I've reluctantly been looking at second-hand options. After a lot of research, I've decided that a second hand K-Series car offers the best compromise between price and the features that I'm after.
I've set myself a strict budget of £12,000. I'd obviously prefer to pay less but I would be prepared to pay up to that amount for a car that ticks all of my boxes.
According to several online buying guides and forums that I've looked at, it should easily be possible to purchase an entry level K-Series car for that sort of money. However, when I look at the actual prices of cars for sale, the majority of sellers seem to be asking considerably more than £12,000 for a Seven with that engine. So it seems, either the guides are wrong (or out of date), or I'm looking in the wrong places.
I've noticed that most of the cars being advertised online are being sold by dealers, and generally have high specs, and very low mileage. Maybe that's the problem. Or maybe I've just been unlucky so far.
I'd appreciate some advice on the best places to buy a second-hand Seven, and whether my budget of £12,000 is realistic. If it's not, then unfortunately I'll probably have to postpone my plan, or abandon it altogether. Incidentally, I've ruled out buying an earlier (and generally cheaper) Crossflow engined car as I think that engine is now a little too old. I'm likely to keep the car for a long time and I'm concerned about reliability, and future parts availability.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I'm considering buying a Caterham 7 based around the K-Series engine, and would appreciate some advice.
I'll firstly give you some background information about myself. It's been a dream of mine to own a Caterham Seven ever since I was a teenager. My original plan was to buy a new car from a kit and build it myself. However, various real life issues always got in the way (lack of money, lack of garage space, lack of time, health problems, etc.) and eventually I moved on to other things.
Anyway, I'm now in the position of having to purchase a new car, and for the first time in over 20 years, I'm once again seriously considering buying a Caterham Seven. However, I'm beginning to realise that a lot has changed in the Caterham world since I've been away. And unfortunately, it's mostly not for the better.
The hassle and expense of putting a car through the (increasingly ridiculous) IVA test has put me off the idea of buying a kit. I'm also a bit shocked by the current prices. Caterhams were never exactly cheap, but their prices seem higher than I remember. In particular, their entry level 160 model seems poor value compared to the K-Series based classic model that it replaced (although it does tick a lot of my boxes).
I'm also not keen on the changes that Caterham have made to the styling of their new cars. I prefer the 60s styled Sevens with big chrome headlights, clamshell wings, bench seats, etc. I also happen to think that Caterham's new square badge is hideous. That's obviously a minor point, but it does suggest that the people currently running the company don't share my taste.
So I've reluctantly been looking at second-hand options. After a lot of research, I've decided that a second hand K-Series car offers the best compromise between price and the features that I'm after.
I've set myself a strict budget of £12,000. I'd obviously prefer to pay less but I would be prepared to pay up to that amount for a car that ticks all of my boxes.
According to several online buying guides and forums that I've looked at, it should easily be possible to purchase an entry level K-Series car for that sort of money. However, when I look at the actual prices of cars for sale, the majority of sellers seem to be asking considerably more than £12,000 for a Seven with that engine. So it seems, either the guides are wrong (or out of date), or I'm looking in the wrong places.
I've noticed that most of the cars being advertised online are being sold by dealers, and generally have high specs, and very low mileage. Maybe that's the problem. Or maybe I've just been unlucky so far.
I'd appreciate some advice on the best places to buy a second-hand Seven, and whether my budget of £12,000 is realistic. If it's not, then unfortunately I'll probably have to postpone my plan, or abandon it altogether. Incidentally, I've ruled out buying an earlier (and generally cheaper) Crossflow engined car as I think that engine is now a little too old. I'm likely to keep the car for a long time and I'm concerned about reliability, and future parts availability.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I agree with you on the nose badge, fortunately they seem to agree and have just changed back to a round one 
I bought a Sigma 125 engined Seven kit 5 years ago, and I must say, I wouldn't buy a new one now. I like the look of the 160, but it would cost me as much as I paid for the 125 then, and the 270 is serious money. You're much better buying second hand.
For 12000, you will be able to buy a reasonable Seven. A classic styled crossflow engined car with clamshell wings would seem the best fit for what you want.
However, don't over look the more recent academy cars which tend to be cheaper due to some race use and will give you a newer chassis with less potential corrosion problems.
I do think you might struggle to find a good condition 1.6 or 1.8 K series in your budget. 15000 would give you a lot more choice.
I bought a Sigma 125 engined Seven kit 5 years ago, and I must say, I wouldn't buy a new one now. I like the look of the 160, but it would cost me as much as I paid for the 125 then, and the 270 is serious money. You're much better buying second hand.
For 12000, you will be able to buy a reasonable Seven. A classic styled crossflow engined car with clamshell wings would seem the best fit for what you want.
However, don't over look the more recent academy cars which tend to be cheaper due to some race use and will give you a newer chassis with less potential corrosion problems.
I do think you might struggle to find a good condition 1.6 or 1.8 K series in your budget. 15000 would give you a lot more choice.
You might just get a 1400k at 12k (obviously, you could be lucky and find 1.6. nothing's impossible).
However I too like the idea of a crossflow 7 as an entry level. Although for me I would prefer DD to a live axle. From your styling preferences that would work too.
I owned a Cat D 1600 exec superlight for a while which was very good and bought at 12k because of the cat D.
Bert
However I too like the idea of a crossflow 7 as an entry level. Although for me I would prefer DD to a live axle. From your styling preferences that would work too.
I owned a Cat D 1600 exec superlight for a while which was very good and bought at 12k because of the cat D.
Bert
I can't offer much advice other than don't discount an Xflow engined car. They are little crackers in the right spec and built properly are very reliable old lumps.
Mine, just this week went for a shakedown and setup on the rolling road after I resealed it over the winter. The result was 138.5bhp(118/122atw, I can't remember). It took 12 runs in fairly quick succession without any serious issues. I can post a link to a run video if it's of interest.
All parts are readily available and relatively cheap. Very characterful and sounds great! I'd almost go as far as to say, it's one of the better road engines to have. On the road it's great to drive too. Perhaps try one and see for yourself. The power to weight ratio of a seven style car means you don't have to have 300bhp to make a rapid car. It's more about the all round experience for me.
Mine, just this week went for a shakedown and setup on the rolling road after I resealed it over the winter. The result was 138.5bhp(118/122atw, I can't remember). It took 12 runs in fairly quick succession without any serious issues. I can post a link to a run video if it's of interest.
All parts are readily available and relatively cheap. Very characterful and sounds great! I'd almost go as far as to say, it's one of the better road engines to have. On the road it's great to drive too. Perhaps try one and see for yourself. The power to weight ratio of a seven style car means you don't have to have 300bhp to make a rapid car. It's more about the all round experience for me.
Speak to some private vendors;I sold my last car in 2007 when it was 14 (but extensively upgraded ). The general view was I should ask 12. I did and , long story short , I sold several months later for 8k.Time of year wasn't great (Autumn ) and high miles put some off but it is worth making an offer and see what happens.If you go for a 1.4 my advice would be don't consider it with a 5 speed box- they are stupidly overgeared and 6 speed much better. Crossflows full of character , if needing more TLC (and fuel) than more modern engines. Zetec conversions tick a lot of boxes too.
As a guide I am considering letting go of my 2001 1.8 Road sport with the super sport (140) engine and 6 speed box and have been offered £15k as a trade in from a specialist so I'd be after at least that privately. They would sell it on for £17k+ I would have thought.
A 1.6 Road sport with 5 speed may be possible privately for £12k but not from a dealer.
Otherwise you're looking at the Classics with the 1.4 k series.
Ben.
A 1.6 Road sport with 5 speed may be possible privately for £12k but not from a dealer.
Otherwise you're looking at the Classics with the 1.4 k series.
Ben.
TTwiggy said:
There might just be a 1.4K SS in budget on the classifieds now... 
I've just had a quick look, and there are now two Supersports available within my budget - one for £12,000 and one for only £9,250!! Maybe patience is the key to this game after all.Which of them is yours?
I've just been perusing the PH classifieds again, and I've noticed that there are several surprisingly cheap Vauxhall engined Sevens for sale. So far, I haven't really considered the Vauxhall engine option, but now I'm beginning to wonder whether I should.
Is there a reason why the Vauxhall engined cars are (relatively) cheap?
Thanks.
Is there a reason why the Vauxhall engined cars are (relatively) cheap?
Thanks.
The VX 8-valve isn't easily up-gradable and it's at the bottom end of the power table, hence, those whose only criteria is HP tend to dismiss it. However, I have one of them which I bought for sub-£12,000 a few years ago, and it's as fast as you'd want for road use. I've said this before, unless you're going to do track days, 0-60 times are irrelevant, it's the whole driving experience that makes a Caterham such fun, and cross-flows are a very affordable introduction.
Thanks for all the replies.
I should have mentioned earlier that I'm not particularly concerned about the engine's power output. In fact, in some respects I'd prefer a lower powered engine, as it would presumably mean lower insurance premiums, and possibly greater engine longevity as well.
That being said, I think that less than 100bhp would be a bit iffy, so that rules out the 160 (I've ruled out the 160 for other reasons as well). However, I think the entry level 106bhp K-Series engine would be enough for me.
Also, I've done some more research into the Xflow engine, and I've now definitely ruled out that option. There are just far too many comments about owners having to do complete engine rebuilds after relatively low mileage for my liking.
I should have mentioned earlier that I'm not particularly concerned about the engine's power output. In fact, in some respects I'd prefer a lower powered engine, as it would presumably mean lower insurance premiums, and possibly greater engine longevity as well.
That being said, I think that less than 100bhp would be a bit iffy, so that rules out the 160 (I've ruled out the 160 for other reasons as well). However, I think the entry level 106bhp K-Series engine would be enough for me.
Also, I've done some more research into the Xflow engine, and I've now definitely ruled out that option. There are just far too many comments about owners having to do complete engine rebuilds after relatively low mileage for my liking.
Caterham84 said:
Thanks for all the replies.
I should have mentioned earlier that I'm not particularly concerned about the engine's power output. In fact, in some respects I'd prefer a lower powered engine, as it would presumably mean lower insurance premiums, and possibly greater engine longevity as well.
That being said, I think that less than 100bhp would be a bit iffy, so that rules out the 160 (I've ruled out the 160 for other reasons as well). However, I think the entry level 106bhp K-Series engine would be enough for me.
Also, I've done some more research into the Xflow engine, and I've now definitely ruled out that option. There are just far too many comments about owners having to do complete engine rebuilds after relatively low mileage for my liking.
If you google k series longevity, you'll find some interesting facts too. In short...if you believe everything you read on the net, you'll never buy a car! I should have mentioned earlier that I'm not particularly concerned about the engine's power output. In fact, in some respects I'd prefer a lower powered engine, as it would presumably mean lower insurance premiums, and possibly greater engine longevity as well.
That being said, I think that less than 100bhp would be a bit iffy, so that rules out the 160 (I've ruled out the 160 for other reasons as well). However, I think the entry level 106bhp K-Series engine would be enough for me.
Also, I've done some more research into the Xflow engine, and I've now definitely ruled out that option. There are just far too many comments about owners having to do complete engine rebuilds after relatively low mileage for my liking.
I'm no expert but have had several K series cars including a Freelander that was almost twice the weight of the 7 and 4x4, engine had done 150,000 miles, There are quite a few Elises that have done over 100,000 miles so IMO don't be put off with a highish millage car.
I've got an ex Acadamy 7 that has only 10,200 miles on the clock, has full leather, carpets, aero screen, doors, half hood, momo steering wheel etc etc that's in your price range.
I've got an ex Acadamy 7 that has only 10,200 miles on the clock, has full leather, carpets, aero screen, doors, half hood, momo steering wheel etc etc that's in your price range.
My K engined Seven(one car with first a 1.4 and then a VVC) did 60k miles without incident. More importantly the K's character really suits a Seven. HG failure has happened to some but isn't common AFAIK . But if yo get unlucky it's not the complete end of the word anyway. I found the K ideal for a Seven and if it felt less rorty than a XFlow it was far more sporty than a Vauxhall 8 valve I once drove(and yes it has its fans too).
I would not worry about mileage - my 1.8k did 48000 motorway miles in its first 2 years - i then thrashed the hell out of it on Isle od Wight Roads, autotesting at CarClub and quite a few trackdays - you have to be really unlucky to break it - look at how many other k series cars (not sports) there are and have been that have reached 6 figure mileages - its hardly stressed lugging a 7 around. I have just sold my 2005 Roadsport 1.8 at 53k for £11,000.
Caterham84 said:
TTwiggy said:
There might just be a 1.4K SS in budget on the classifieds now...
I've just had a quick look, and there are now two Supersports available within my budget - one for £12,000 and one for only £9,250!! Maybe patience is the key to this game after all.Which of them is yours?
carphotographer said:
I've got an ex Acadamy 7 that has only 10,200 miles on the clock, has full leather, carpets, aero screen, doors, half hood, momo steering wheel etc etc that's in your price range.
Hi, that sounds interesting. Could you give me a link to your car's details (assuming you've advertised it for sale somewhere).Thanks
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