Implications of Brexit!
Discussion
eharding said:
Well, Cameron has gone.
The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.
The issue will be if Leave voters vote UKIP and the Remain vote along party lines. UKIP would win.The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.
Same happened in Scotland: SNP majority because the people who voted to stay vote Labour/Tory/Green etc so the 55% is split whereas the 45% isn't.
If course Leave voters who have seen the light may not vote UKIP but the risk is huge.
eharding said:
don'tbesilly said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
LK
Whilst I can fully understand various folk performing due diligence in the light of the referendum result, I don't think we'll actually ever invoke Article 50.
The Brexiteers have long been chuntering on about the sovereignty of Parliamentary decisions.
I think they'll find that in the final analysis, Parliament will decide - probably after a General Election - and it won't be decision the Brexiteers will like.You seem to be implying that Cameron was indeed scaremongering when in one of his last speeches during the last week of campaigning, he said this:
EU vote 'is an irreversible decision. There is no going back'.
I don't think 17.4 million people are going to be best pleased that it was indeed a lie, and that their decision to leave is going to be disregarded.
Is the above what you're suggesting?Well, Cameron has gone.
The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.Heart would love that to be the case. Head says we wouldn't survive the uncertainty. For better or worse, we now have to leave and make the most of it. The supreme irony is that the people who will make Brexit work will, overwhelmingly, be people who voted to remain, not the narrow-minded simpletons who voted to leave
A sensible exchange, or so I thought until the last sentence.eharding said:
don'tbesilly said:
eharding said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
That's day one. Believe me; there's a s
t storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seen
Chill, Winston.t storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seenWhilst I can fully understand various folk performing due diligence in the light of the referendum result, I don't think we'll actually ever invoke Article 50.
The Brexiteers have long been chuntering on about the sovereignty of Parliamentary decisions.
I think they'll find that in the final analysis, Parliament will decide - probably after a General Election - and it won't be decision the Brexiteers will like.
EU vote 'is an irreversible decision. There is no going back'.
I don't think 17.4 million people are going to be best pleased that it was indeed a lie, and that their decision to leave is going to be disregarded.
Is the above what you're suggesting?
The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.
Shame.
It is unfortunate that the enlightened remainers are still failing to recognise that dismissing people with differing ideas and values as idiots is not an effective method of communication. Perhaps a campaign that connected with the population would have lead to a different result.
As to not enacting Article 50; ignoring the wishes of an important national vote with an impressive turn out because you don't like the result is not a good way to start healing a divided country.
Some people are prepared to have less money if it means if they are not ruled by a foreign power, (Londonites may not understand this concept).
ClaphamGT3 said:
Heart would love that to be the case. Head says we wouldn't survive the uncertainty. For better or worse, we now have to leave and make the most of it. The supreme irony is that the people who will make Brexit work will, overwhelmingly, be people who voted to remain, not the narrow-minded simpletons who voted to leave
This is what I was saying on another thread. There will be some extremely distressed individuals when it dawns on them that the UK outside of the EU will still be shipping in vast amounts of foreign labour to ensure London keeps making the money to run the UK and that as we have to become more lean and efficient we will not being paying unecassary money to people who are not willing to be economic migrants in their own country. An awful lot of people who voted Leave will be getting a very nasty shock when the Spitfire factories are not re-opened and their immigrant neighbour is still here and driving a better car than them.
DonkeyApple said:
An awful lot of people who voted Leave will be getting a very nasty shock when the Spitfire factories are not re-opened and their immigrant neighbour is still here and driving a better car than them.
That's true with some Alf Garnett types, but come on, both my neighbours are immigrants, my parents were immigrants, and we all voted Leave.Admittedly I've not seen them for 2 days as everyone is taking in the news.
///ajd said:
Its odd when you compare this decision to say a making a business case to spend as little as £1m on a new project at work, I'm at a loss to understand why we would make such a huge change on what could be on very shakey analytical grounds.
IME the bigger the decision to be made, the less detailed and definitive the business case.Am not saying that's a good or bad thing. There are times when it could be either.
The Leave campaign could not be definitive about anything. They were not the government who will be leading negotiations, and negotiations can always go either way - much will depend on the quality of the people involved.
Equally the Remain campaign could not be definitive either. The EU has been changing steadily over the last 40yrs, and not always in a direction that the UK reps want and/or that is good for the Uk.
A vote has happened. We need to muck in and get on with it now. If we keep on with the bickering and moaning, you can guarantee some of the more negative predictions will end up becoming self fulfilling prophecies
fido said:
DonkeyApple said:
An awful lot of people who voted Leave will be getting a very nasty shock when the Spitfire factories are not re-opened and their immigrant neighbour is still here and driving a better car than them.
That's true with some Alf Garnett types, but come on, both my neighbours are immigrants, my parents were immigrants, and we all voted Leave.Admittedly I've not seen them for 2 days as everyone is taking in the news.
I wonder who they'll blame when either prices go up as a result of not being able to get cheap EU labour, or the cafe closes?
No doubt it will be the EU's fault for keeping staff wages artificially low all these years....
Jader1973 said:
eharding said:
Well, Cameron has gone.
The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.
The issue will be if Leave voters vote UKIP and the Remain vote along party lines. UKIP would win.The invocation of Article 50 will need to be done as a result as an Act Of Parliament.
I'm suggesting that the electorate may well be invited, after a period of reflection, to confirm - or revise - their referendum choice by electing representatives to Parliament, based partly on whether those representatives are willing to vote to invoke Article 50....
...and, after a period of due reflection, I don't think they will.
Same happened in Scotland: SNP majority because the people who voted to stay vote Labour/Tory/Green etc so the 55% is split whereas the 45% isn't.
If course Leave voters who have seen the light may not vote UKIP but the risk is huge.
tty stick and me smacking them with it. I see them as the other side of the coin when it comes to the EU insanity and hold both in contempt. I voted leave knowing it would mean less money for me and possibly a large fall in wealth because I didn't want my half Italian children to grow up in a Europe that wasn't democratic, had a massive wealth divide meaning a divided peer group where they would be viewed as 'elites' and lived in the extreme risk of the current EUs expansionist and military aims. The concept of the EU has gone horribly wrong and the rise of the far right and elitism is a function of this erroneous path. Ideally I'd prefer to see other EU members vote to leave and for our actions to catalyse a reforming of the EU concept but without that I would prefer to take the personal hit to leave than give my vote to something that I feel has manifestly been hijacked by extremists and is heading to violent disaster.
DonkeyApple said:
Thanks - interesting read.ClaphamGT3 said:
You think those are encouraging?!
You don't know much about the realities of politics do You?
Do give you some sense of "The Positive stuff";
On Tuesday I dined with the CEO of one of London's largest corporate land lords. He told me that a number of his FI clients had already started discussions about exiting their leases
On Friday, three clients called to ask us to re-visit the viability of their development portfolios based on their downward predictions on sales values and increased finance costs
On Friday I chatted to the European Real Estate Director of a major automotive co with a manufacturing base in the UK. They have a plan to switch production out of the UK post-Brexit.
That's day one. Believe me; there's a st storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seen
A combination of sensible planning anyway, some utterly ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and an utter overstatement from someone who is, presumably, a Remain supporter with a reluctance to change/adapt.You don't know much about the realities of politics do You?
Do give you some sense of "The Positive stuff";
On Tuesday I dined with the CEO of one of London's largest corporate land lords. He told me that a number of his FI clients had already started discussions about exiting their leases
On Friday, three clients called to ask us to re-visit the viability of their development portfolios based on their downward predictions on sales values and increased finance costs
On Friday I chatted to the European Real Estate Director of a major automotive co with a manufacturing base in the UK. They have a plan to switch production out of the UK post-Brexit.
That's day one. Believe me; there's a s
t storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seen///ajd said:
Its odd when you compare this decision to say a making a business case to spend as little as £1m on a new project at work, I'm at a loss to understand why we would make such a huge change on what could be on very shakey analytical grounds.
Could you explain to us exactly where the EU would have been, in say 5 years, if we had remained.Very little data available on either case and all the 'facts' that came out had been politicised to give the view required.
vonuber said:
Given a lot of the regions received EU funding as deprived areas - I think cornwall got at least 500 million - I assume this is going to be replicated?
Assuming we can afford it of course.
The majority of the people of Cornwall voted to leave the EU. Why should they still get the money? If it was important to them perhaps they should have voted to remain. Clearly they weighed it up and decided it wasn't worth it.Assuming we can afford it of course.
Robertj21a said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
You think those are encouraging?!
You don't know much about the realities of politics do You?
Do give you some sense of "The Positive stuff";
On Tuesday I dined with the CEO of one of London's largest corporate land lords. He told me that a number of his FI clients had already started discussions about exiting their leases
On Friday, three clients called to ask us to re-visit the viability of their development portfolios based on their downward predictions on sales values and increased finance costs
On Friday I chatted to the European Real Estate Director of a major automotive co with a manufacturing base in the UK. They have a plan to switch production out of the UK post-Brexit.
That's day one. Believe me; there's a st storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seen
A combination of sensible planning anyway, some utterly ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and an utter overstatement from someone who is, presumably, a Remain supporter with a reluctance to change/adapt.You don't know much about the realities of politics do You?
Do give you some sense of "The Positive stuff";
On Tuesday I dined with the CEO of one of London's largest corporate land lords. He told me that a number of his FI clients had already started discussions about exiting their leases
On Friday, three clients called to ask us to re-visit the viability of their development portfolios based on their downward predictions on sales values and increased finance costs
On Friday I chatted to the European Real Estate Director of a major automotive co with a manufacturing base in the UK. They have a plan to switch production out of the UK post-Brexit.
That's day one. Believe me; there's a s
t storm coming the like of which none of us have ever seent storm coming and can compare it to the ststorms anyone reading this thread has ever witnessed. vonuber said:
Given a lot of the regions received EU funding as deprived areas - I think cornwall got at least 500 million - I assume this is going to be replicated?
...
Nobody knows yet. It will depend on many factors....
Personally I hope that whoever is Chancellor puts a lot of focus on us eradicating the deficit and eating into the National Debt. We're only going to help people long term if we get our finances straight.
Lots of different people will want lots of different things from the money available....
ralphrj said:
The majority of the people of Cornwall voted to leave the EU. Why should they still get the money? If it was important to them perhaps they should have voted to remain. Clearly they weighed it up and decided it wasn't worth it...
Ditto Wales. What's the future now for the TVR factory now that there won't be an EU Enterprise Zone and attendant grants?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff